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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Good Anti-KID systems (Read 13066 times)
lnn2
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #8 - 04/20/08 at 14:04:37
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Consider this line, suspect White's 7th move not innocuous:

M.Carlsen-I.Cheparinov, World Chess Cup 2007
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 d6 5.e4 O-O 6.c3 c5 7.dxc5
dxc5 8.Bc4 Nc6 9.O-O Qc7 10.Qe2 h6 11.Bh4 Nh5 12.Rfe1 Bg4
13.Qe3 g5 14.Bg3 Nxg3 15.hxg3 b6 16.Nh2 Bh5 17.g4 Bg6 18.g3
Rad8 19.f4 Nd4 20.Rac1 b5 21.Bf1 gxf4 22.gxf4 Ne6 23.e5 f5
24.exf6 Rxf6 25.f5 Ng5 26.fxg6 Re6 27.Qf2 Be5 28.Rxe5 Qxe5
29.Ndf3 Nxf3+ 30.Nxf3 Qf4 31.Re1 Rxe1 32.Nxe1 Qxf2+ 33.Kxf2
Rd2+ 34.Ke3 Rd1 35.Ke2 Ra1 36.Bg2 c4 37.a3 Rb1 38.Be4 Rxb2+
39.Nc2 Kg7 40.Ke3 Rb3 41.Kd2 Kf6 42.Nd4 Rxa3 43.Nxb5 Ra5
44.Nc7 Kg7 45.Ne6+ Kh8 46.Ke3 Ra1 47.Kd4 a5 48.Bc6 a4 49.Be8
Rg1 50.g5 a3 51.Bf7 Rxg5 52.Nxg5 hxg5 53.Bxc4 Kg7 54.Kd3 Kxg6
55.Kc2 g4 56.Kb3 Kf5 57.Kxa3 g3 58.Bf1 e5 59.Kb3 Kf4 60.Bg2
Ke3 61.Kc4 Kf2 62.Be4 1-0
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #7 - 04/19/08 at 20:27:33
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I also would recommend the Saemisch with 6.Bg5 or 6.Nge2, both of which I have scored well with at under-2300 level.   

For something more offbeat, you might try 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 0-0, and now either 5.Bf4!? or 5.Bg5!?.  They don't look like much, but the idea is to play 6.e3 and get a reversed KIA a couple tempi up and with the Bishop already outside of the pawn chain.  I've had good results with these in casual games.  Compare to 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 Nf6 6.Bg2 Be7 7.0-0 0-0.  In this case Black is supposed to be equal, but with colors reversed you get an extra tempo and the Queen's Bishop is outside of the pawn chain.  I'm not saying it refutes the KID or anything, but Black doesn't get his thematic play against the d4 square and he has to be careful to play as if he were facing the French, because he has a tempo less and White's Bishop is more actively posted.   

For instance, 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 0-0 5.Bf4 d6 6.e3 Nbd7 7.h3 Re8 8.Be2 e5? 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.Nxe5! is one way natural moves can go horribly wrong for Black.
  
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The_Shah
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #6 - 04/19/08 at 07:05:50
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At club level (ie below 2000 ELO) I think the 6.Bg5 Samisch would be very effective. Firstly, many KID players (particularly inexperienced or non-theoretical ones) like to play ...e5 against most of White's systems, so this variation would probably lead them into positions that they are not used to.

Also, the Samisch Benoni after 6...c5 7.d5 e6 8.Qd2 ed5 9.cd5 contains some venom, especially at less exalted levels of play.
  
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SniperOnG7
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #5 - 04/19/08 at 00:43:10
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Yes, as a KID player, the variations that annoy me the most are the Fianchetto and the Saemisch. That said, both variations contain a huge body of theory. Do you play the English? of 1. Nf3? Because there are several good anti-KID lines there. Anti-Leningrad at the same time also!
  
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battleangel
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #4 - 04/18/08 at 18:00:57
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I do not like these irrational positions resulting after e5 d5,
somehow black prevents white from penetrating on queenside,
after cxd6, he takes back with c-pawn, making the pawn structure symmetrical, puts a knight on e8 to protect c7, puts a bishop on f8 to protect d6, and I can't do anything on queenside, rybka says around +1.00 for white in these lines, but somehow fails to come up with moves to really get advantage. And black just advances his pawns on king side, gets his knights up there, and all I can do as white is to wait for the black attack.

That is why I have chosen the fianchetto, 
and it is again a game of chess Smiley
And I am not a slow positional player, my strength is also tactics.
I don't know why people say, the fianchetto is slow positional,
the fianchetto makes still a lot of fighting chess.
And good tactical players like Aronian or Mamedyarov also play the fianchetto btw.
  
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trandism
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #3 - 04/18/08 at 12:12:01
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I think that any recommendation depends on the level we are talking about.. 

For around 2000, I would recommend what you named "Urday Caceres Variation" on the other thread that I uploaded a PGN with my analysis

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1207945267

For lower levels I would recommend the saemisch and on higher levels, I think you should check out Shirov-Radjabov Linares 2008

http://www.chessdom.com/morelia-linares-2008/shirov-radjabov-live


  
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Chevalier
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #2 - 04/18/08 at 12:07:00
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Legion XIX wrote on 04/18/08 at 11:55:42:
With the King's Indian, Black aims to obtain active play, putting pressure on White's position. He/she is even willing to make positionaly concessions to achieve counterplay, believing that his/her compensation in the form of initiative will be sufficient.

In terms of solidity, the Fianchetto Variation is hard to beat. White copies Black's kingside fianchetto, thus solidifying his king from any attack, whilst taking control of the centre. There is a large body of theory on the Fianchetto Variation, but in general not knowing the theory is not a huge disadvantage in view of the solidity of White's position.


Thanks for the quick reply Legion!

I was considering the Fianchetto myself, since as you said it is hard for Black to mount an attack on White's king. Didn't Carlsen beat Morozevich in Linares 2007? My memory tells me that the game continued 6...c5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2, which leads to quite complicated positions. Does the symmetrical position after 8.dc5 dc5 offer White anything to play for?
  
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Legion XIX
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Re: Good Anti-KID systems
Reply #1 - 04/18/08 at 11:55:42
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With the King's Indian, Black aims to obtain active play, putting pressure on White's position. He/she is even willing to make positionaly concessions to achieve counterplay, believing that his/her compensation in the form of initiative will be sufficient.

In terms of solidity, the Fianchetto Variation is hard to beat. White copies Black's kingside fianchetto, thus solidifying his king from any attack, whilst taking control of the centre. There is a large body of theory on the Fianchetto Variation, but in general not knowing the theory is not a huge disadvantage in view of the solidity of White's position.
  
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Chevalier
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Good Anti-KID systems
04/18/08 at 11:51:08
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G'day,

What lines do you recommend against the King's Indian? I am looking for a variation that does not have a huge body of theory, but which still contains quite a bit of venom for Black players.
  
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