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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) I don't play the nimzo because (Read 14092 times)
Dragan
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #20 - 05/18/08 at 07:59:07
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I have 3rd edition, russian version, also looked at 2nd ( english ). Both are good reference work ( talking about the catalan ). You always need some extra work and, for me most important, OTB expirience.In practice, you will never see some variations, and will play some obscure line 5 or 6 times.As white, I have about 80 % games with c6, Nbd7, other are dc with Nc6 or some obscure lines.As black, i intend to play 3..c5-not a single game so far.
  
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Stigma
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #19 - 05/09/08 at 13:34:51
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Markovich wrote on 05/09/08 at 01:46:10:
Antillian wrote on 05/08/08 at 13:25:49:
Stigma wrote on 05/08/08 at 12:53:34:
I bought the earlier german edition of Raetsky and Chetverik's Catalan book (Kania, 2001). I don't suppose anybody knows how much has changed in the english edition? Should I give in and buy it too, even if my interest in the opening is primarily on the black side?


According to Aagaard, who edited the English version, this version "hardly covers the same lines as the German book".


I have both books and that is only a slight exaggeration.  The English version is substantially new.


They hardly cover the same lines? This sounds a bit strange, given that the authors are the same. Does it mean both books are independently useful? Or that most of the lines in the german edition are now irrelevant theoretically?

The German edition has en "encyclopedic" feel although it omits some early alternatives.
  

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ghenghisclown
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #18 - 05/09/08 at 04:15:00
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I share the overall frustration with the Catalan (so does Vigorito apparently). It used to be until a game between Kramnik and Alekseev that 3.g3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 b5 looked like an independent course that promised Black good play, until Kramnik came up with the obscure 6.e4 (I don't remember which old master played this first-maybe Flohr). The top players (Alekseev seemed for a time to switch to a Benoni proper) now seem to avoid b5 for Black. 

Don't know if anybody on ChessPub has looked at Ushenina-Carlsson, but I think that game (0-1) may be inconclusive.
  

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Markovich
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #17 - 05/09/08 at 01:46:10
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Antillian wrote on 05/08/08 at 13:25:49:
Stigma wrote on 05/08/08 at 12:53:34:
I bought the earlier german edition of Raetsky and Chetverik's Catalan book (Kania, 2001). I don't suppose anybody knows how much has changed in the english edition? Should I give in and buy it too, even if my interest in the opening is primarily on the black side?


According to Aagaard, who edited the English version, this version "hardly covers the same lines as the German book".


I have both books and that is only a slight exaggeration.  The English version is substantially new.
  

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Antillian
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #16 - 05/08/08 at 13:25:49
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Stigma wrote on 05/08/08 at 12:53:34:
I bought the earlier german edition of Raetsky and Chetverik's Catalan book (Kania, 2001). I don't suppose anybody knows how much has changed in the english edition? Should I give in and buy it too, even if my interest in the opening is primarily on the black side?


According to Aagaard, who edited the English version, this version "hardly covers the same lines as the German book".
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Stigma
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #15 - 05/08/08 at 12:53:34
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I bought the earlier german edition of Raetsky and Chetverik's Catalan book (Kania, 2001). I don't suppose anybody knows how much has changed in the english edition? Should I give in and buy it too, even if my interest in the opening is primarily on the black side?

As for the general problem discussed here (love the Nimzo but hate 3.Nf3, 3.g3) I just don't see it. The Nimzo gives Black lots of options to play sharply or solidly, and to match your Nimzo tastes you can choose from:

Benoni, Blumenfeld, Semi-Slav (Botvinnik or Moscow), Vienna, Ragozin, Cambridge Springs, Tarrasch Defence, Black Knights' Tango, Bogo-Indian, Queen's Indian, Queen's Gambit Declined... a whole spectre of options to suit any imaginable taste. And don't tell me all these defences are ever theoretically unplayable all at the same time.

3.g3 can be annoying, but Black has several ways to offer interesting, unbalanced play, for instance 3...c5 with various Benoni transpositions; the Catalan accepted with 5...Nc6!? as discussed by both Raetsky/Chetverik and Palliser in his Tango book; Catalan lines with ...Bb4+ provoking White to misplace his bishop slightly on d2, as advocated by Kaufman. Sure, Kramnik, Gelfand et al. have answers ready to all of these, but on ordinary mortal level just learn a line and play good chess.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Markovich
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #14 - 05/08/08 at 12:19:52
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Chevalier wrote on 05/08/08 at 10:27:28:
Raetsky and Chetverik's work on the Catalan was supposed to be quite good according to Flear; if you are having difficulties against the Catalan, this may well be the book to consult. Also, it's only four years old, so their suggestions would still hold up today, at least at lower echelons.


The thing to bear in mind about Raesky and Chetverik's Catalan work is that while it appears to be exhaustive, it isn't.  In some variations there are significant alternatives that just aren't considered.  However I agree that it's an excellent reference.
  

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Chevalier
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #13 - 05/08/08 at 10:27:28
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Raetsky and Chetverik's work on the Catalan was supposed to be quite good according to Flear; if you are having difficulties against the Catalan, this may well be the book to consult. Also, it's only four years old, so their suggestions would still hold up today, at least at lower echelons.
  

Nothing has meaning or value other than the meaning and value that you give it.
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #12 - 05/08/08 at 00:59:05
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CheckMate wrote on 05/07/08 at 16:58:17:


By the way why do you hate the Catalan. I find it no more evil than most other 1. d4 openings. Many people seems to have psycological aversions against the Catalan.


I find its elasticity makes it difficult to "lock-in" a strategic strike.  If I get to rigid in pawn structure too early, failing to keep it dynamic at the right points and at the right times, it become too much like endodontics with minimal analgesics.
  

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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #11 - 05/07/08 at 19:14:30
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"Black has nothing in the Catalan ...I have some experience with the Bogo but it's too passive ..."


I stand (or sit) in awe of such explications.
  
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cyronix
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #10 - 05/07/08 at 18:52:00
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If you want to play "sound" after d4 Nf6 c4 e6 
when white does not play 3. Nc3 allowing you the answer 3. ... Bb4,
after 3. g3 you are in the Catalan and after 3. Nf3 you have the option for QID (... b6) or QGD (... d5), although in the QGD there is still a transpostion into the Catalan possible.
On GM Level you almost only see these 3 (Nimzo after Nc3, QID or QGD after Nf3, Catalan after g3). 
I have some experience with other answers like the bogo (3. ... Bb4+) and the benoni (3. ... c5), but the bogo is too passive and the benoni is just not really good, but in the end the Benoni seems to be the only way out for active play in my opinion.
Well black just has nothing in the catalan, really nothing!
If white really trys to win in the catalan you get counterchances,
but if white just plays solidly you can't escape the eternal grip.

Lately I am looking a lot into the Gruenfeld,
black seems to be also in very shaky positions in some lines,
but I think still prefer them over the benoni.
the benoni is just not good, I can't help myself.
It doesn't lose or something, but if white knows what to do,
e.g. doesn't let you trade your whitesquared bishop for the knight,
and prevents you from playing ... b5 ...
you basically can just hope for a draw ...
  
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #9 - 05/07/08 at 16:58:17
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If you pair the Nimzo with the Modern Benoni you need only 2 openings because the latter option is "on" after both 3. Nf3 and 3. g3 and indeed also after 3. a3.

By the way why do you hate the Catalan. I find it no more evil than most other 1. d4 openings. Many people seems to have psycological aversions against the Catalan.
  
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #8 - 05/07/08 at 09:17:27
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That was Rogers-Timofeev, Hoogeveen (open) 2005. White won the game, although Black was doing well out of the opening. 

To be precise, the Grunfeld line had been discussed briefly in a survey on the Rossolimo, rather than the Alapin - not that it makes any difference, of course.
  

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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #7 - 05/07/08 at 07:20:58
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On the other hand : the Nimzo leads to a wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide variety of types of position, so in a way it is like learning a lot of openings.

But I wonder whether is really possible to stake out you little backgarden in the realm of opening theory. I remember a letter from Ian Rogers in the NIC forum where he says that he should have known about a certain position in a Grunfeld because it had been discussed in the previous yearbook ... in the section for the 2.c3 Sicilian !
  
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Re: I don't play the nimzo because
Reply #6 - 05/06/08 at 01:48:02
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Quote:
I hate the Catalan,
and the benoni is no real alternative!!!

I don't know why everyone says they play the nimzo,
actually you have to be able to play 3 different openings when playing the nimzo!!!



Stay away from Xianggi.   

Othello is always fun!  Smiley
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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