Normal Topic 3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann (Read 5045 times)
Antillian
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Re: 3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann
Reply #6 - 06/09/08 at 17:25:39
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Stigma wrote on 06/08/08 at 12:37:25:
 
An oversight from Karpov/Podgaets, obviously. But they do suggest a couple of sidelines as OK for Black in their Short variation chapter:

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.Be2 c5 6.0-0 Nc6 7.c3 (this position could arise from 3...c5 4.c3) and now they give both 7...Bg6 and 7...Rc8 as equal/unclear on pp. 219-20 (though without a lot of analysis). Did you have anything in mind for White against these moves?


Sorry, I should have been more specific. 7...Bg4 was the move given two opposite evaluations in the two different chapters.
  

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naughtyknight
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Re: 3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann
Reply #5 - 06/08/08 at 14:19:01
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To naughtyknight: I wouldn't despair at having to learn this one line. I have played the Short system as White, and one of the most fun lines there is 5.Be2 c5 6.Be3! where White will often look to quickly open the centre with c2-c4. This is much less likely with White committed to c3. And of course by playing 3...c5 you still avoid (3...Bf5) 4.Nf3 e6 5.a3!?, 4.Nc3, 4.c3, 4.Be3, 4.h4, 4.g4 and so on

Thanks very much, you are right of course, there are some 'move order' advantages here. I've got the karpov book somewhere, so I'll have to look into it. Cheers!
  
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Stigma
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Re: 3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann
Reply #4 - 06/08/08 at 12:37:25
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Antillian wrote on 06/08/08 at 01:58:31:

Karpov and Podgaets, for example cover this line in the 3...c5 chapter where they suggest Black is fine. Clearly, they missed the transposition since then later on in the Short Variation chapter, they suggest it is inferior for Black

An oversight from Karpov/Podgaets, obviously. But they do suggest a couple of sidelines as OK for Black in their Short variation chapter:

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.Be2 c5 6.0-0 Nc6 7.c3 (this position could arise from 3...c5 4.c3) and now they give both 7...Bg6 and 7...Rc8 as equal/unclear on pp. 219-20 (though without a lot of analysis). Did you have anything in mind for White against these moves?

To naughtyknight: I wouldn't despair at having to learn this one line. I have played the Short system as White, and one of the most fun lines there is 5.Be2 c5 6.Be3! where White will often look to quickly open the centre with c2-c4. This is much less likely with White committed to c3. And of course by playing 3...c5 you still avoid (3...Bf5) 4.Nf3 e6 5.a3!?, 4.Nc3, 4.c3, 4.Be3, 4.h4, 4.g4 and so on  Wink

Antillian wrote on 06/08/08 at 01:58:31:

Stigma,
I am not so sure about 5...cxd4 6.cxd4 Qb6 7.Nc3 Qxd4 as 8. Nd5 looks nice for White. And after 8...Qxd1 Bxd1, I suppose Black's position is playable, but I prefer White certainly.


Quite right. The dangers of trying to analyze blindfold... I somehow thought that Black was ready to castle long!
  

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naughtyknight
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Re: 3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann
Reply #3 - 06/08/08 at 09:06:37
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Hmmm, best I have a line ready against the Short System, since there doesn't seem to be a viable way around the transposition.

Not really ideal, though, from the point of view of many repertoire suggestions (Houska, Davis, Martin) which use 3...c5 to avoid stacks of theory, eh.  Sad
  
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Antillian
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Re: 3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann
Reply #2 - 06/08/08 at 01:58:31
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Yes, indeed this move is ignored by Houska. Wells suggests 5...Bf5 as the best move, which of course eventually leads to a line of the Short variation. 

It seems that even not many people have thought about this move order choice. Karpov and Podgaets, for example cover this line in the 3...c5 chapter where they suggest Black is fine. Clearly, they missed the transposition since then later on in the Short Variation chapter, they suggest it is inferior for Black

Stigma,

I am not so sure about 5...cxd4 6.cxd4 Qb6 7.Nc3 Qxd4 as 8. Nd5 looks nice for White. And after 8...Qxd1 Bxd1, I suppose Black's position is playable, but I prefer White certainly.


  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Stigma
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Re: 3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann
Reply #1 - 06/07/08 at 11:40:22
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After 5.Be2 maybe Black can try to play for immediate pressure on d4, to force Nf3 from White? For example 5...cxd4 6.cxd4 Qb6 and now 7.Nf3 Bg4 or 7.Nc3?! Qxd4 or 7.Be3 Qxb2. I haven't really analyzed any of this though.
  

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naughtyknight
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3...c5 4.c3!? In the advance Caro-Kann
06/06/08 at 20:51:07
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What is everyone's view on the following line:

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5!? 4.c3 Nc6 5.Be2!

Now... having prevented ...Bg4, how can Black reply without ending up in some sort of 'Short System' Advance variation after ...Bf6 and ...e6.

Any ideas?
  
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