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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Time Trouble Help (Read 26222 times)
Markovich
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #14 - 12/27/08 at 18:57:26
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Miki wrote on 12/26/08 at 23:00:24:

And if I had to choose between playing strong (and spending lots of time on only seemingly unimportant nuances) or routinely playing out my moves just to keep my clock high I would always choose the first option.


Really?  I would always choose the second.  Or to put it better, when short of time I would rather trust my intuition than try to puzzle out what was absolutely best.  To produce good moves quickly is one key thing that separates the men from the boys, of course, and I can't claim to be particularly good at it.  But I would rather not come to a complicated position and realize that I have no time left to spend on it.  So very often, the time you spend after the first couple of minutes is unhelpful anyway, you know?
  

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MNb
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #13 - 12/27/08 at 16:18:19
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Miki wrote on 12/26/08 at 23:00:24:
And if I had to choose between playing strong (and spending lots of time on only seemingly unimportant nuances) or routinely playing out my moves just to keep my clock high I would always choose the first option.


My point is that one should avoid such choices. You neglect this, which seems to be a common sophism for time trouble addicts. Your time management does not necessarily mean a huge disadvantage, especially if you're a time trouble beast. But it still means that you give the opening more attention than the middle game and endgame and that certainly causes a lack of balance in your play. No smart logic can argue against this.
Anyhow, against opponents that apply your time management I apply mine: I make sure I have 5-10 minutes more left on the clock, use your time to get into the position, will complicate around move 30 and 9 times out of 10 will reap the fruits in the form of some decisive tactics - assuming that we are of about equal strength. So I wish you good luck with your satisfactory position around move 20 - I rather have the win.

@ Stigma: keeping pace with your opponent it does not mean that one should always use less time than the opponent. Neither does it mean that one should rush out moves if the opponent does. It means that one should not spend too much time on the opening against speedy players. Later one will need that time in a critical position. Several instructors have pointed out how important it is to recognize a critical position in ones game; that's the point the player should invest time regardless of the opponent. But one cannot do that if one uses a lot of time on decisions in the opening that are not critical at all.

Miki wrote on 12/26/08 at 23:00:24:

And it does not have to do with my opening preparation, I mean quite a few of my opponents don't even follow theory as deep as I have learned it - in that case it's even more important to think hard from the very beginning.


This suggests you learn your opening theory the wrong way - namely by heart. If you have prepared your openings well you even understand where your pieces have to go the etc. the first 15 moves or so if your opponents deviate. One should not figure out such things behind the board.
In the case one really gets caught in unknown theory - something that has happened very rarely to me last 25 years, despite of my bad memory - one can fall back on the general recipe, something I gave in my previous post: activate your pieces, castle, place one or two pawns in the centre, in short play according to elementary opening principles. If one also watches out for some tactics there is no need for excessive timespending (wasting?!) in the opening.

Btw all these thoughts are not mine. They stem from all kinds of chess manuals, some of them several decades old.
  

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Stigma
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #12 - 12/26/08 at 23:38:37
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I've tried this "keep pace with your opponent" idea, but there are great dangers with it and I have basically given it up. It can give a false sense of security when you allow yourself to spend a lot of time, but justify it by the opponent having spent just as much. What often happens is one player gets the initiative (though not necessarily an objective advantage) and can play relatively quickly while making open or hidden threats. It's generally harder to defend than to attack, and after a while only one player is in time trouble...

Of course sometimes I would be the one getting the initiative, but this method increases the randomness of the result (who is objectively better from the opening and early middlegame matters less). And since I'm higher rated than maybe 75% of my opponents that's not something I want. 

Having walked into this trap too many times, I now maintain that only the position and one's own clock should come into consideration when portioning out time, not the opponent's clock. The one exception is in lost positions where playing fast in the opponent's time trouble might be a good gamble.

How short of time you can get and still play a decent game varies a lot from person to person of course; it pays to know one's own strengths and limitations.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Miki
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #11 - 12/26/08 at 23:00:24
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MNb wrote on 12/26/08 at 21:05:30:
Miki wrote on 12/26/08 at 15:56:22:
What if he is an extremely fast player (or knows his theory much better then you)?
Would you prefer to have an inferior position with plenty of time on the clock or decent position with let's say half of your time spent?
But what if your opponent leads you to the completely unknown path? Would you really want to follow his tempo and soon find yourself on the verge of defeat? 

One thing remains true: it does not make sense to spend a lot of time on the first half of your game, getting a huge advantage and spoiling it in timetrouble. My guidelines are meant to avoid this embarrassing experience.

True. Also, it does not make sense to rush your moves just to keep up with your opponent's pace and end up in an inferior position in which all the time in the world wouldn't help you.
And if I had to choose between playing strong (and spending lots of time on only seemingly unimportant nuances) or routinely playing out my moves just to keep my clock high I would always choose the first option.

Obviously, what works for me, doesn't have to work for you or someone else. In 90% of my longer games I spend at least 20-30 minutes more then my opponent on the first phase of the game (on opening and early middlegame). 
According to you that would mean that I am almost always at huge disadvantage but I usually have more then enough compensation in form of a satisfactory position. Of course, I am not immune to time troubles but I actually don't face them as often as one might think, simply because it's much easier to play when I have already acquired a satisfactory position from the opening and worked out my future plan(s) for the position.
To you, losing a won position because of time trouble is embarrassing. To me, it's much more embarrassing to lose after having suffered most of the game because of playing opening moves routinely.

And it does not have to do with my opening preparation, I mean quite a few of my opponents don't even follow theory as deep as I have learned it - in that case it's even more important to think hard from the very beginning.

  
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MNb
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #10 - 12/26/08 at 21:05:30
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Miki wrote on 12/26/08 at 15:56:22:
What if he is an extremely fast player (or knows his theory much better then you)?
Would you prefer to have an inferior position with plenty of time on the clock or decent position with let's say half of your time spent?
But what if your opponent leads you to the completely unknown path? Would you really want to follow his tempo and soon find yourself on the verge of defeat? 


In such situations it's likely that my opponent is at least 200 ELO-points higher than me, so it won't make any difference anyway. But let's assume (s)he's of about equal strength.

1. An extremely fast player is likely to commit inaccuracies in the opening. It's beneficial to spend some time to get the upper hand. But still don't spend too much time (and here Fischer's limit pops up again) or you will lose by flag or by blundering during time trouble, so all your efforts to gain an advantage will be in vain.
2. Players of my strength hardly ever know their theory better than me. That's a matter of preparation. And if they do they have to spend time themselves to recall all the nuances.
3. Opening preparation should enable the player to reach decent positions almost always without spending say half of his/her time.
4. If my opponent manages to lead me to the completely unknown opening path my preparation was wrong and my opening knowledge has failed. Still I can fall back on the general principle of placing my pieces on normal squares. That takes much less time than trying to find the objective best continuation.

The trick is - I repeat - to avoid spending lots of time in the opening and still get a decent position.

All in all your questions are of the type: what if the density of ice is bigger than the density of water? Interesting, but not terribly relevant.

Look, you can think of all kind of exceptional situations. Once in a game of 1 hour each I spend 25 minutes on one move. It won by force. But such exceptions do no refute the general guidelines I gave.

One thing remains true: it does not make sense to spend a lot of time on the first half of your game, getting a huge advantage and spoiling it in timetrouble. My guidelines are meant to avoid this embarrassing experience.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Miki
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #9 - 12/26/08 at 15:56:22
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MNb wrote on 12/26/08 at 01:42:06:
Stigma wrote on 12/24/08 at 23:44:59:

Btw. the one really useful thing I have done about my time trouble was to play lots of bullet games over a 1-year period, which dramatically improved my OTB play when already in time trouble.


This is what I have done as well (albeit 5 minutes, no bullet) and it's very helpful indeed.
My second advise is to compare with the clock of your opponent. Try to have five minutes more left than him/her. If that's not possible try not to have more than five minutes less than him/her during the middlegame. You should only make an exception when calculating a winning combination, but even then you have to follow advise nr. 3:
Fischer when delving into complicated lines always set himself a limit. He allowed himself to think x minutes and then made a decision, whether his thought-process was finished or not.

I guess everyone has it's own rules about time management but I think it's completely wrong to compare my time to that of my opponent's and try to follow him.
What if he is an extremely fast player (or knows his theory much better then you)? You surely wouldn't want to follow that pace...
Also, most people claim that one shouldn't spend too much time in the opening so that he has enough for the critical moments. I'd like to ask them: would you prefer to have an inferior position with plenty of time on the clock or decent position with let's say half of your time spent?
I think that it's not too wise to come up with any general advices about how much time to spend. There are so many factors which correlate with the time management.
Obviously, one is going to play faster if he is playing some typical middlegame or his favorite opening/line.
But what if your opponent leads you to the completely unknown path? Would you really want to follow his tempo and soon find yourself on the verge of defeat? 
Key thing is to objectively analyse after the game where exactly and WHY did you spend so much time so that you try improve that area. 

I agree that playing some blitz can be helpful to the tactical vision and confidence when low on time but playing too much blitz can definitely harm your game, IMO. It's because on the subconscious level you might adopt some strategies that are not really correct and advisable for a longer game.
Also, I always play blitz with the increment so that I have enough time to finish off my opponent in the endgame. It can be very frustrating to lose the very well played and completely won game. Also, I analyse with the comp EACH AND EVERY blitz game (even the won ones) I play on the internet and when I have clearly found where I went wrong I write it down in a word document in a form of: "Don't do xyz anymore" or in a form of a reminder of what I have to do so that I never lose that way again: "Analyse line xyz because you suck in it" etc. etc.
I go over these self-advices from time to time.
It would be even better to insert a diagram for every position where you went terribly wrong but I am not patient enough to do that, so it's only in a written form. (But usually I vividly remember the game when I go through the advices)
  
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MNb
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #8 - 12/26/08 at 01:42:06
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Stigma wrote on 12/24/08 at 23:44:59:

Btw. the one really useful thing I have done about my time trouble was to play lots of bullet games over a 1-year period, which dramatically improved my OTB play when already in time trouble.


This is what I have done as well (albeit 5 minutes, no bullet) and it's very helpful indeed.
My second advise is to compare with the clock of your opponent. Try to have five minutes more left than him/her. If that's not possible try not to have more than five minutes less than him/her during the middlegame. You should only make an exception when calculating a winning combination, but even then you have to follow advise nr. 3:
Fischer when delving into complicated lines always set himself a limit. He allowed himself to think x minutes and then made a decision, whether his thought-process was finished or not.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #7 - 12/25/08 at 20:24:02
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(sort of OT)   

I was already accustomed to a steady stream of comments on the order of "This line might give White decent chances in internet blitz," "I have had good results with this in internet blitz," "This move has been giving me trouble in internet blitz," "I am going to test this opening in internet blitz" and "I haven't studied this variation, but I gave it up after trying it a few times in internet blitz."  Internet blitz:  jack-of-all-trades and touchstone of everything!  In this case (after a couple of mentions of "IB" in this thread) I can't help but think of (a) a friend of mine who gets in time trouble very often although he has played about 10,000 blitz games on ICC, and (b) the fact that I used to get in time trouble a lot despite the fact that I was, I would say, a pretty decent blitz player.  In (b), though, I am basically referring to OTB blitz, so maybe the "internet" part would have made all the difference ...
  
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #6 - 12/25/08 at 19:23:47
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Quote:
Have you considered correspondence chess?

Its now 2 years since I've started playing corr chess and I lost two games on time! Shocked

It seems to me my opponents are either retired or analyzing at their work cause they really "shoot" their moves at me - some of them have cummulated 250 days or more on their "clock"...
  
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Miki
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #5 - 12/25/08 at 17:56:44
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Have you considered correspondence chess?


Just kidding.

It's hard for me (or anyone else) to know why you have problems with time trouble. Maybe your opening knowledge is not satisfactory and you have to start thinking too soon? Maybe you aren't comfortable with the positions that arise after the openings you play (this could be fixed by playing numerous blitz games and getting used to them). Maybe your thoughts are focused too much on variations only instead of the game plan? Maybe you aren't good with tactics therefore missing the decisive winning lines and dragging the won positions forever? Maybe you are scared of making a mistake (which usually happens because of fear of losing)? Maybe you strive for perfection instead of being practical? Etc., etc.
So many reasons why someone enter the time trouble. You are the only one who can find the right answer...
  
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #4 - 12/25/08 at 16:43:07
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Normally I only get in time trouble when playing a new opening,
because the position is still knew to me and I still have to realize how to play in such positions (and maybe also with the lack of knowledge in the opening there comes a lack of confidence). Try to occupy yourself regularly with chess, that should do it. Mostly Rated Blitz Games on the Internet and maybe tactic solving, if the opening is still new to you, it is just a matter of time until you'll know it better and play it faster.
  
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #3 - 12/25/08 at 13:34:18
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Stigma wrote on 12/24/08 at 23:44:59:
Btw. the one really useful thing I have done about my time trouble was to play lots of bullet games over a 1-year period, which dramatically improved my OTB play when already in time trouble. When I sensed that I had gotten the maximum effect I could out of bullet, I stopped playing it again. Training regularly with easy to intermediate level tactical patterns to stay sharp also helps in this regard. But this is just a band-aid, not a cure.


Presumably, playing lots of faster games would also have the benefit of strengthening your intuition, which would help you to feel the better continuations and not spend so much time mulling over the options...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #2 - 12/25/08 at 07:49:06
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Stigma
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #1 - 12/24/08 at 23:44:59
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I'll keep my eyes open for any good answers to this one! 

Platitudes like "Postponing a decision doesn't necessarily improve it" and "I won't give any advice about what to do if you are in time trouble, since this situation shouldn't arise" (both from Nunn: Secrets of Practical Chess) have not helped me. Best coverage I've seen was in Krogius' "Chess Psychology", where he discussed with a sympathetic voice the various psychological factors that lead to time trouble, the pecularities of play in time trouble, and various concrete training suggestions. Interestingly he claimed to have found that players who started playing tournament chess late (I think age 11 was his cutoff-point) were MUCH more prone to time trouble.

My strategy right now is to play the openings faster and try to be less fascinated by all my options in the early middlegame (if they're all OK just pick one, dammit!).

Btw. the one really useful thing I have done about my time trouble was to play lots of bullet games over a 1-year period, which dramatically improved my OTB play when already in time trouble. When I sensed that I had gotten the maximum effect I could out of bullet, I stopped playing it again. Training regularly with easy to intermediate level tactical patterns to stay sharp also helps in this regard. But this is just a band-aid, not a cure.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Gerry1970
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Time Trouble Help
12/24/08 at 21:53:06
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Hello All:

Last night, yet again, I got into time trouble and turned a win into a draw. Previously I have turned wins into losses. Admittedly last night was 85 + 5s bit I still need to do better. When I know openings I can get through the first 10 moves in a minute. So that helps.

I know there is a fair bit written on this, but I am wondering about your experiences. Have any of you being able to cure their time troubles and if so how?

Thanks in advance,

Gerry
  
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