Tuesday I had the unfortunate experience of playing Black when forced to win. My opponent chose:
1.c4 f5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 0-0 6.e4 d6 7.Nge2 e5 and now 8.Nd5; soon Bg5 came, everything was exchanged on f6 followed by d3-d4 and more exchanges.
Nex time I will be playing Kindermanns variation.

MNb wrote on 12/30/08 at 14:23:06:



This may have been mentioned before but Black has an interesting alternative to the 7...e5 transposition in 7...fxe4 8.dxe4 c5! 9.0-0 Nc6 which is covered by Kindermann in his Leningrad System book.

MNb wrote on 12/30/08 at 14:23:06:


I thought the Botvinnik wall was the same kind of setup as your line above but without black having played f5.OKey F5 often comes later but another difference is that in the "Botvinnikwall" black plays his kingsknight to e7 not to f6 as in the line you showed.

The line I mention (Nge7)is VERY solid and black and white bangs ones head into each other but blacks winning chances are not too high if white is content with a draw. And whites winningchances are not too high if black is content with a draw. This setup is mentioned in Tony Kostens dynamic english where he writes that Botvinnik played this sytem. I have faced this "Botvinnikwall" when I played the Botvinnik system as white. I many times felt whites play leads to nothing. On the other hand I never felt the same when facing the Leningrad dutch. this leads more to a fight. More risky for black but many times white comes under fire also.

I have to correct my earlier post when I said McDonald claimed Leningrad was the "Best" way to face the Botvinnik. Thats wrong. I came home from work and looked it up in the book. On page 130 in Starting out the English McDonald says that the Leningrad dutch "gives Black the most flexibility when facing the Botvinnik". He also warns that the black player must be ready for a d4-setup.

I am sure the Leningrad system is better against the english than against the 1.d4 setup. Actually some english players have realized this and plays d4 when faced with the dutch. An english opening without d4 played gives black a freer hand to get in e5 (in the Leningrad variation). Black gets a stronger center which makes his attack more efficient. Its a perfect choice to meet a rock solid white player hoping for a "calm evening".

Neil McDonald for instance said in his book Starting out the English that the best setup against the rock solid english Botvinnik system actually is the Leningrad dutch.

D-1993F2 wrote on 12/28/08 at 01:28:35:


Well, you need not play 1...e6 since 1...f5 is perfectly good.

Is it possible to play the Dutch against the English?  1.c4 e6  2. (white heading into the English) followed by 2...f5?  Thanks.