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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6? (Read 219388 times)
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #176 - 02/08/09 at 13:29:57
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sloughter wrote on 02/08/09 at 02:38:29:
There is a standard adage in the law. When you don't have the facts on your side, argue the law. When you don't have the law on your side, argue the facts. When you don't have either on your side, wave your arms.

And when you don't have the chess analysis on your side, argue the adages.....
  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #175 - 02/08/09 at 12:35:30
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It would take too much time to me to play 13..e4 too, because there is a lot of ideas here. I will stay with 13..0-0 alone yet because I believe it's good enough to "keep" equality.

[quoteHere are the seven moves that it takes to cook 8...Be7: 1.Bxc6ch, 2.Qxc6ch, 3.Qa6 4.Qe2, 5.Nc3, 6.d3, 7.O-O The order depends on what responses Black makes. This position is +- Why? Because White has a four to one pawn majority on the Queenside, a protected passed pawn and Black has no compensation for either one.
] [/quote]

You played 5 of your "key moves for win", but I won't let the time to play d3 now, I play 14..e4! now.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5 c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6 Nxc6 10. Qxc6 Bd7 11. Qa6 Qc7 12.Nc3 h6 13.Nf3 0-0 14.Qe2 e4



  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #174 - 02/08/09 at 12:28:57
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White can avoid the main lines of the Berliner and the strong reply 8...Ne6 with the following line I spent months analyzing with GM Lev Alburt: 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Nh3!? (This fights for the f4 square and makes 8...Ne6 far less desirable because of the resource 9.Bxb7ch Bd7 10.Qa4 & that Knight on h3 is great.)

The best I can find for Black is 8...Bxh3! 9.cxd4! Bd7 10.dxe5 +/=sloughter wrote on 02/08/09 at 02:55:34:
I intended to meet 13...e4 with 14.Nd4. On 13...O-O 14.Qe2

Do you want to start a second variation with 13...e4 14.Nd4?ArKheiN wrote on 02/07/09 at 22:09:31:
@Sloughter:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5 c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6 Nxc6 10. Qxc6 Bd7 11. Qa6 Qc7 12.Nc3 h6 13.Nf3 0-0

13..e4 was of course possible, interesting and logical move, I have hesitated to play that.


  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #173 - 02/08/09 at 10:51:54
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I didn't know you had any personality.TN wrote on 02/07/09 at 20:31:41:
sloughter wrote on 02/07/09 at 11:05:47:
This must be my lucky day at the slot machine---three jackasses and a pirate!Nelson wrote on 02/07/09 at 08:25:06:
Grin  Grin  Grin  Wink

Nelson



I didn't know you had multiple personalities.

Edit: This post is also easily read.

  
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sloughter
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #172 - 02/08/09 at 02:55:34
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I intended to meet 13...e4 with 14.Nd4. On 13...O-O 14.Qe2

Do you want to start a second variation with 13...e4 14.Nd4?ArKheiN wrote on 02/07/09 at 22:09:31:
@Sloughter:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5 c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6 Nxc6 10. Qxc6 Bd7 11. Qa6 Qc7 12.Nc3 h6 13.Nf3 0-0

13..e4 was of course possible, interesting and logical move, I have hesitated to play that.

  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #171 - 02/08/09 at 02:38:29
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Sounds like sour grapes to me. I have corroboration that the Wilkes Barre is practically cooked (My one innovation and supporting practical results, invalidate at least three BOOKS, not three articles, and should replace opening theory in the main reference texts e.g MCO, BCO and ECO), the Fried Liver is toast (Despite attempts at salvation, Pincus has shown it is a bust. How many texts still think it is playable?), and the Berliner is buried (This and Chessposter.com are the first publications to the general chess community that the Berliner Gambit is refuted). 

Right now, chesspub.com has the best theory on the TKD Ng5 variation of any chess source anywhere. 

This analysis is being read by chess players all over the world. If the post is so bad, why are so many readers reading it? Any one of these three innovations validate the entire post. 

There is a standard adage in the law. When you don't have the facts on your side, argue the law. When you don't have the law on your side, argue the facts. When you don't have either on your side, wave your arms. Good luck flying!

drkodos wrote on 02/07/09 at 18:52:29:
Meat wrote on 02/07/09 at 11:24:25:
Could everybody here please stop quoting all these long posts when making a reply? It makes the thread unreadable.



No.

It is the lousy ideas, poor analysis, sophomoric insults, and general overall inability of the original poster to understand things that are obvious and fully comprehensible to everyone else.



That is what makes this thread unreadable.


  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #170 - 02/07/09 at 22:09:31
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@Sloughter:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5 c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6 Nxc6 10. Qxc6 Bd7 11. Qa6 Qc7 12.Nc3 h6 13.Nf3 0-0

13..e4 was of course possible, interesting and logical move, I have hesitated to play that.
  
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TN
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #169 - 02/07/09 at 20:31:41
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sloughter wrote on 02/07/09 at 11:05:47:
This must be my lucky day at the slot machine---three jackasses and a pirate!Nelson wrote on 02/07/09 at 08:25:06:
Grin  Grin  Grin  Wink

Nelson



I didn't know you had multiple personalities.

Edit: This post is also easily read.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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drkodos
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #168 - 02/07/09 at 18:54:52
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drkodos wrote on 02/07/09 at 18:53:48:
drkodos wrote on 02/07/09 at 18:52:29:
Meat wrote on 02/07/09 at 11:24:25:
Could everybody here please stop quoting all these long posts when making a reply? It makes the thread unreadable.



No.

It is the lousy ideas, poor analysis, sophomoric insults, and general overall inability of the original poster to understand things that are obvious and fully comprehensible to everyone else.



That is what makes this thread unreadable.



See?

This is eminently readable.


HINT:  Skip over the part you've already read!



No charge.



I argue this is still easily read.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #167 - 02/07/09 at 18:53:48
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drkodos wrote on 02/07/09 at 18:52:29:
Meat wrote on 02/07/09 at 11:24:25:
Could everybody here please stop quoting all these long posts when making a reply? It makes the thread unreadable.



No.

It is the lousy ideas, poor analysis, sophomoric insults, and general overall inability of the original poster to understand things that are obvious and fully comprehensible to everyone else.



That is what makes this thread unreadable.



See?

This is eminently readable.


HINT:  Skip over the part you've already read!



No charge.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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drkodos
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #166 - 02/07/09 at 18:52:29
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Meat wrote on 02/07/09 at 11:24:25:
Could everybody here please stop quoting all these long posts when making a reply? It makes the thread unreadable.



No.

It is the lousy ideas, poor analysis, sophomoric insults, and general overall inability of the original poster to understand things that are obvious and fully comprehensible to everyone else.



That is what makes this thread unreadable.

  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #165 - 02/07/09 at 11:24:25
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Could everybody here please stop quoting all these long posts when making a reply? It makes the thread unreadable.
  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #164 - 02/07/09 at 11:17:35
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Is the youtube anything related to the boob tube? As you can see on these posts the information is a mile wide and an inch deep! Would you see if you can get me broadband here? I only have dial-up so I can't down load the site. Perhaps you can summarize it for me?TN wrote on 02/07/09 at 07:18:32:
sloughter wrote on 02/07/09 at 06:38:57:
Hi ArkheiN! Do you have any other pseudonames? I have a tough time figuring out which personality I am dealing with! Have you ever watched the film, "The Three Faces of Eve."? Perhaps you can watch and learn something from it.

The post responses from various members is well known and predictable. I recommend every post member check out the website called, "The Suppression of Inconvenient Facts in Physics: The Big Bang Scandal". Here is what Brian Martin had to say in his introduction,

"Textbooks present science as a noble pursuit for truth, in which progress depends on questioning established ideas. But for many scientists, this is a cruel myth."

"They know from bitter experience that disagreeing with the dominant view is dangerous---especially when that view is backed by powerful interest groups. Call it suppression of intellectual dissent."

"The usual pattern is that some one does research or speaks out in a way that threatens a powerful interest group, typically a government, industry or professional body. As a result, representatives of that group attack the critic's ideas or critic personally---by censuring writing, blocking publications, denying appointments or promotions, withdrawing research grants, taking legal actions, harassing, blacklisting, spreading rumors..."

May I suggest one additional hat for you to wear? How about the hat of the Grand Inquisitor so I can play the role of Galileo? Yes, I can be forced to recant, but I would prefer to be permitted to tell the truth.

Do you really want to continue the game? Pay attention Luke, the Jedi Master, Yoda is about to give you a chess lesson. 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3 Be7 9.Bxc6ch Nxc6 10.Qxc6ch Bd7 11.Qa6 Qc7 12.Nc3 +-

...

Dear Mr. Arkheim,

In an earlier post, you indicated that you wanted to "learn everything I can from you" 

Then you stated, "So let's continue 'JUST FOR FUN'" (emphasis added). Then you stated, "and there Sloughter 'resigned'" (That was certainly news to me 

Then you stated, "I hope you understand something new now." (Yes---never trust a stranger bearing gifts)

Well, Mr. Arkheim, if you want to learn from me, I guess that makes me Yoda and you are my trusty apprentice Luke Skywalker. In a student/teacher relationship, it is the job of the teacher to give a performance rating for his/her students on a regular basis e.g. a report card. Here is your first (and I hope your last!) report card. In terms of attendance, you get an "A" for showing up on the posts on a regular basis. For alacrity (cheerful readiness) "A", for effort, "A" for physical education (mental gymnastics) "A" for imagination "A" (It was a great scheme to make me look "bad"). 

Now for the critical grade, Mr. Arkheim, listen closely; I am only going to tell you this once: If you do not resign your theoretical position in the following move sequence immediately: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3 Be7??, then you get an "F" as a theoretician.

I'm am truly sorry that I inadvertently set you up when I listed the candidate moves. When I came up with candidate moves for this position in the span of about a minute (I did forget 8...h6), I made the fatal assumption that Black had compensation for two pawns in the 8...Be7 line, just like the 8...Rb8 lines. The two lines are as different as night and day. The only similarity is that Black is down two pawns in both variations; aside from that there are no similarities.

When White failed to get enough of an advantage with Bd3, Be2, or Bf1, I knew there was a gross error somewhere; White should be winning here. Then I challenged my original assumption: That the 8...Be7 line was "similar" to the 8...Rb8 line---a fatal assumption.Then the solution was obvious.

9.Bxc6ch! (of course in hindsight) Nxc6 10.Qxc6ch Bd7 (The first major difference between this and the Rb8 variation. In that variation, the check is met with 10...Nd7. In this position, this hangs the exchange 10...Nd7?? 11.Nxf7! Kxf7 12.Qd5ch/Qxa8+- so Black is forced to play the inferior 10...Bd7 (Perhaps you would like me analyze the position after 10...Qd7 11.Qxa8)

Here are the seven moves that it takes to cook 8...Be7: 1.Bxc6ch, 2.Qxc6ch, 3.Qa6 4.Qe2, 5.Nc3, 6.d3, 7.O-O The order depends on what responses Black makes. This position is +- Why? Because White has a four to one pawn majority on the Queenside, a protected passed pawn and Black has no compensation for either one.




Hi Richard,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI

  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #163 - 02/07/09 at 11:11:49
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May the farce be with you!

4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5ch c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3 Be7 9.Bxc6ch Nxc6 10.Qxc6ch Bd7 11.Qa6 Qc7 12.Nc3 h6 13.Nf3 Mate in 62!ArKheiN wrote on 02/07/09 at 09:58:52:
Please Sloughter, don't ask me again if I want to resign after each predictables moves. When I decided to continue with 11..Qc7 I have of course anticipated 12.Nc3.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5 c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6 Nxc6 10. Qxc6 Bd7 11. Qa6 Qc7 12.Nc3 h6

  
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Re: refutation of 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6?
Reply #162 - 02/07/09 at 11:05:47
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This must be my lucky day at the slot machine---three jackasses and a pirate!Nelson wrote on 02/07/09 at 08:25:06:
Grin  Grin  Grin  Wink

Nelson

  
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