Taking a look at the Alchemy line (which upon closer inspection is more interesting than I first thought), indeed what does White have after 11...0-0?  The sacrifices on e6 don't work (though after 12.Bxe6 Black has to find 12...h6!) After 12.Qd2 Nbd7 White has some compensation but it looks doubtful whether it's enough.

How about the immediate sacrifice on e6?  I haven't seen any references to it in that article or in this thread so far.  (8.Ng5 Bg6) 9.Bxe6 fxe6 10.Nxe6 leaves Black a piece up for a pawn, but Black will be forced to forgo castling rights.  After 10...Qd7, White can try 11.Qe2 Kf7, though here Black can retreat the king to the fairly safe g8-square.  Alternatively 11.Bg5 Kf7 (11...Qxe6 12.Re1 Ne4 13.Qf3 Nxg5 14.Qg4 leaves Black with a rook and two pieces for the queen, but White maintains an attack; 13...Kd7 will leave Black's king exposed on the queenside) 12.d5 Be7 13.Qf3 is likely to net a second pawn for the piece, with unclear attacking chances.  Fritz doesn't think White has full compensation, but Black's position will be difficult to play at least.

The other sacrifice- 9.Nxe6 fxe6 10.Bxe6- is less impressive in view of 10...Bd6 11.Re1 Qc7 when White doesn't have enough for the piece, and the king will eventually escape to the kingside.

My problem is that I could potentially end up with this position via one of my main responses to the Caro-Kann: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3, and in practice my opponents have invariably replied with 4...exf3, 4...e5 or 4...e3, but there is always 4...Nf6 transposing.  (Many players play 4.Bc4 instead, but then 4...Nf6 5.f3 transposes).

Having seen the line 5.Nxe4 e5 (5.fxe4 e5 is similar) I am inclined to agree with Stefan Buecker- I'm happy to take a dynamically equal position, but not a sterile one (hence why I only took up the Goring Gambit when I found ways for White to generate dynamic equal play against 4...d5).  Thus it would be fruitful to search for the soundest way to continue in gambit style.

So if the Alchemy Variation is dubious for White, what are we left with?  I think if 5.Bg5, then I take the point that Black can argue that 5...exf3 6.Nxf3 Bg4 gives an improved version of the ...Bg4 lines as White's bishop does not normally go to g5.  However, White may be able to get some play with the continuation 7.Qd2 e6 8.Bd3 (or 7.Bd3 e6 8.Qd2) Nbd7 9.Ne5.  I don't think developing the bishop to c4 works as well; after 7...e6 8.Qd2 (8.Qe2 Bb4 9.a3 Bxc3+ 10.bxc3 Qa5 11.Bd2 =+) 8...Nbd7 and I see no way forward.

5.Be3 is rather passive (simply 5...exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 looks good) so that leaves Gambit's suggestion of 5.Bf4.  Then if 5...exf3 6.Nxf3 Bg4, White can consider 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.Bd3 e6 9.Ne5 with similar play, but the bishop may be better placed on f4 than on g5.  Or simply 9.0-0-0.

I'm not convinced that any of these lines objectively give White enough, but they might be no worse than the Alchemy line.

There is a third alternative: not to play the BDG at all. Are you saying that in the Alchemy you prefer maneuver (12.Bc1) to attack (12.h4)?

SWJediknight wrote on 03/01/09 at 11:45:24:


7...exd4 8.Bc4 Bb4+ 9.c3! dxc3 10.Bxf7+ was Diemer's trick. In my correspondence with Volker Hergert I recommended instead 7...Be6, which leads to a situation similar to 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3 dxe4 4.fxe4 e5 5.Nf3 Be6!, with the difference that Ng8 and Nb1 are exchanged. I claimed that this exchange rather favored Black. Some participants of the thematic corr. tournament later organized by Hergert preferred 5...Bf5, the move recommended by Hergert. Hergert's book "Die O'Kelly-Verteidigung im Blackmar-Diemer-Gambit" (Düsseldorf 1993) has the games of that tournament. The general conclusion was that 4...c6 5.Nxe4 was equal, that alternatively 5.fxe4 e5 6.Nf3 exd4 7.Qxd4 = could be played, and that other 5th moves seemed to be worse. 

These "equal" lines are not what a BDG player is hoping for, and to claim that the BDG doesn't lose is not so sensational by itself. Both 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.c3 and 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 (Ignaz von Popiel) offer reasonable chances, but they are not popular. The real task (in my view) is to find a sound way in the spirit of the BDG, preferrably including an attack on the open files f and e.

Big deal. So you have a Caro-Kann. It's not like White can't equalize here after 1. d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Nxe4 Bf5 6 Ng3.
Sounds like the White players did not play their openings properly if they lost from a simple position like this.

Gambit wrote on 02/28/09 at 06:24:31:

Sure, why not...
HTH

Hadron wrote on 02/27/09 at 21:57:05:


Why, thank you! Yes, it is not a standard move in the BDG. But whoever said I made standard moves? My moves are all unorthodox!
So how about reading the article?

(1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3) 4...c6 5.Bc4 exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 7.0-0 e6 8.Ng5. The Alchemy Variation. 8...Bg6! 9.Ne2! Bd6 10.Nf4 Bxf4 11.Bxf4 Nd5 A few replies ago, MNb had kindly informed me about the site http://www.mujweb.cz/www/rajmunde/IntroEN2.htm , which gives an excellent overview over the state of the art of Alchemy. That site gives 12.Bc1 as the best continuation for White, but White's compensation appears dubious. - The move which I'd clearly prefer is 12.h4!.
 

Apparently a relevant position for the Alchemy Variation 8.Ng5. Now the main threat is 13.Bxd5 Qxd5 14.h5 Bf5 15.g4, and of course the motifs 13.Bd3 or 13. h5 also play a role. Black might try:

12...h6

(a) 12...h5? 13. Bd3! and White is better. 
(b) 12...0-0 13.Bxd5 followed by 14.h5 and 15.h6 looks interesting. For the moment, let's call it unclear.
(c) 12...Nxf4 13.Rxf4 Qe7 14.Qg4 should not be underestimated, for example 14...Nd7 15.Re1 Qb4 16.Qe2 Qd6 17.Qf2 0-0 18.h5! Bxh5 19.Qh4 Bg6 20.Rxf7! Rxf7 21.Rxe6 Qb4 22.Rxg6 =.

13.Nxe6 fxe6 14.Qg4 Bf5 15.Qxg7.

White's attack may be sufficient for a draw, for example: 

15...Rh7 16.Qg8+ (Qg3) 16...Kd7 17.Qg3 Nxf4 18.Rxf4 Na6 19.Rxf5 exf5 20.Be6+. 


The resulting endings remind me of a Muzio Gambit. Black is better, so this should not be your choice in a corr. game. But for an OTB game, and considering the fact that Black has to find a few good moves, before he enters the second diagram, the "Alchemy" may well be White's best try against 4...c6. It isn't clear that Black can force a win.