Normal Topic Alekhine (Grischuk-Ponomariov) (Read 2801 times)
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Re: Alekhine (Grischuk-Ponomariov)
Reply #3 - 05/13/09 at 09:46:36
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Kam

Thanks for your message. I will take a careful look into it.

In general, I agree with your assessment that 18.... Qxd1 is better
but also that these analysis will NOT make Black start playing 4...g6
again.
Three remarks:

i) When I made this post I was not aware that John Watson had proposed 

18.      Qxd1 19. Raxd1 Rxf1+   20. Kxf1 Bxe5  21. Be3 in his books
on chess opening (he has analysed this game saying that this appears
better for Black). "My" contribution were the three moves and subsequent analysis complemented by him and you after the moves
21...Nd5, 21...Bxc3 and also 21....Ra6 (didnt I mention this as well?
what is your assessment on this?)

ii) In fact, my first post in this thread was about the "old" move
18....Rxf1 as played in the game Grischuk Ponomariov where I suggested improvements on move 23 (of a sideline mentioned by Volzhin). Any comments on this?

iii) Is his April update John Watson mentioned the interesting sacrifice
15. exf6 (instead of 15. Nc3 as in the game) Qxf6 16 Nc3 !? (instead of the usual 16. Be3 that has appeared in lots of
games with Alburt playing Black). Then, he has analysed 16... Nxd4 17. Be3 Nxb3 18. Qxb3 Nd5 19. Bc5 and
after this he has considered either 19.... Nxc3 or 19... Rd8. In my opinion, after 19.... Re8! (giving back the pawn), White has nothing!!!
Here are a few lines:
i) 20. Nxd5 exd5 20. Qxd5+ Be6 22. Qxb7 Qxb2 =
ii) 20. Qb5 (which works so well with the d row free) Qd8! (which is not possible in the lines analysed by JW
since the d row is free and White can play Rad1)
iii) 20. Bd4 Qe7 21. Bxg7 Kxg7 22. Ne5 (Nxd5 is Ok for Black with ideas similar to i)) Qc5+ 23. Kh1 Nxc3 24. Rf7+
(here it appears  that White is getting an advantage, but) Kg8 25. Qxc3 Qxc3 26. bxc3 Rf8 27. Rc7 b6 28. Rb1 Ba6
29. h3 Rac8 30. Rxc8 Rxc8 31. Rxb6 Be2 32. Rxe6 Rxc3 and the game appears equal
iv) 20. Rad1 Nxc3 (b6!?) 21 bxc3 b6 22 Bd4 (Qxb6 Ba6 23. Rfe1 Qxc3 24. Rxe6 Bc4 25. Rxe8+ Rxe8 26. Bd4 Qb3)
Qe7 23. Bxg7 (Qxb6 e5!) Qxg7 (Kxg7!?) 24. Qxb6 Ba6 25. Rfe1 Qxc3 and I dont see White being better.
Any comments on this?
 




  
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Re: Alekhine (Grischuk-Ponomariov)
Reply #2 - 05/13/09 at 02:37:29
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SOME THOUGHTS ON THE GRICHUCK-PONOMARIOV GAME AND THE IG 
IMPROVEMENT  18.... Qxd1.  
                                                                            
1. e4 Nf6  2. e5 Nd4  3.d4 d6  4. Nf3 g6  5. Bc4 Nb6  6. Bb3 Bg7  7. a4 a5

8. Ng5 e6  9. f4 dxe5  10. fxe5 c5  11. c3 cxd4  12. O-O O-O  13. cxd4 Nc6

14. Nf3 f6  15. Nc3 (15. exf6! is explored by Watson in his April update)  fxe5  

16. Bg5 Qd7  17. dxe5 Nxe5  18. Nxe5 Qxd1
(proposed by Ig.)

Black played  18....Rxf1  in the actual game.)  19. Raxd1 Rxf1+   20. Kxf1 Bxe5  21. Be3

IG VARIATION A:  Ig mentions the continuation  21....Nd5, which seems to draw.

21..... Nd5  22. Nxd5  exd5  23. Bxd5+ Kh8 (End of Ig Analysis) 24. Bd4 Bxd4  25. Rxd4 

Rb8  26. Bc4
 (26. b4 b6  27. b5 Bf5  28. g4 Bc2  29. Be4 Bb3  30. g5 Re8  31. h4 Re5  

32. Kf2 h6!  33. gxh6 Kh7  34. Kf3 Kxh6  35. Kf4 Re6  36. Bf3 Rf6+  37. Kg4 Re6  

38. Kg3 Re5  39. Kf4 Rf5+  40. Kg4  The position looks drawn, but white may want to play on 

for another  20 moves in order to be fully convinced!.)



26. ... Bf5  27. g4 Bb1  (27…. Bc2 was mentioned in Watson’s April Update, but the black bishop may 
just be too close to the white king.  White is able to grab a tempo at a critical moment.  28. b3 h6 
(28… Re8  29. Rd7 Be4  30.g5 Bc6  31 Rf7
and black does have some difficult decisions to make) 29. Ke2! g5  30. Kd2 Bg6  31. Kc3 b6  32. Rd6 Kg7 
33. Rd6 Kg7  34. b4 axb4  35. Kxb4 h5  36. h3. Things are looking ominous for black.)

28. Rd7  (White's most forceful try.  Menacing is  28. g5, but black 

can hold on with  28....   h6  29. Rh4 h5 30. Rd4 Rf8+  31. Ke1 Re8+  32. Kd2 Bf5 33. Bd3 Re5  

34. h4 Kg7  35. b4 b6  36. b5 Kf7  37. Bxf5 Rxf5  38. Ke3 Re5+  39. Kf3 Rf5+ Black has forced 

a drawn position.)



28.... Rf8+  29. Ke2 Rf4  30. b3 Rxg4  31. Rxb7 Rg2+  32. Kf3 Rxh2 33. Rb5 Rh5  


34. Bd5 Bc2  35. Kg4 Kg7  36. Rxa5


( Both sides have a pair of passed pawns,

but white's pawns are slightly more advanced, by two moves. Black must make some 

important calculations. Some end game literature may have already been published about 

this fairly general position, which more or less can be forced by white and it may or may not 

be a theroretical draw. An exhaustive analysis of this position may be a case of reinventing 

the wheel!)



36.... Kf6  37. Rb5 Bf5+  38. Kg3 Rh3+  39. Kg2 Rd3  40. Bc4 Be4+  41. Kg1 Rc3  

42. a5 g5 43. a6 h5   44. a7 h4   45. Rb4 Rc1+  46. Bf1 Bd5  47. Rb6+ Kf7  48. Rd6 Bf3  

49. Kf2 g4  50. Rh6! Rc2+  51. Ke3 Ra2  52. Rxh4 Ke7  53. Rh6 Kd7  54. b4 Kc7  

55. Ba6
 ( 55. b5 Kb7  56. b6 Bc6  57. Bd3 g3  58. Be4 Bxe4  59. Kxe4 g2  60. Rg6 Ra1

61. Rxg2 Kxb6 =)


55. ... Ra3+  56. Kd4 g3  57. Rg6 g2  58. Bd3 Rxa7  59. Be4 Bxe4  60. Kxe4 Ra2  

61. b5 Rb2  62. Kd4 Rxb5  63. Rxg2 =


White skilfully won a pawn, but black's active king was able to restore the material

balance and save the day.




IG VARIATION B: 21..... Bxc3  This alternative was proposed by Ig, but it seems insufficient 
to save the game.

21..... Bxc3  22. Rd8+ Kf7  23. bxc3 Nd7  (23.... Nd5 (End of Ig analyisis)  24. Bd4 h5  

25. Rh8 Nf6  26. Bc4 Kg7  27. Rd8 Kf7  28. Bb5 (In order to free the rook, black must

lose material.)  28.... Ng4 29. h3 Nf6  30. c4 g5  31. c5 h4  32. Ke1 Nd5  33. Kd2 Nf6  

34. Bd3 Nd7  35. Rh8 Nf6  36. Rh6+-)


24. g4! b6  25. Bc4 Nc5  26. Bxc5 bxc5  27. g5!  Black is in a terrible bind. 

The black bishop cannot  move to b7 due to Rd7+ and the rook can only oscillate between 

b8 and a8. If the black king forces  the rook off the d7 square, the h7 pawn is lost and white's 

connected king side pawns will win the day. 27.... Ke7  28. Rh8 Kd6  29. Ke2 e5 (Black's 

best try.


( 29..... Bb7  30. Rxh7 Bc6  31. Rh6 Rg8  32. Bd3 Bxa4  33. Rxg6 Rxg6 34. Bxg6 Bb3

35. h4 a4  36. Kd2 a3  37. Kc1 Bd5  38. h5 Ke7  39. h6 Kf8  40. Bh7 +-)


30. Ke3 Bb7  31. Rxh7 Bd5  32.Be2 Bb3  33. Rh6 Ke7  34. Rxg6 Bxe4  35. h4 Bc2

36. Rg7+ Kd6  37. Bg4 Kc6  38. Rf7 Rd8  39. Bf3+ Kd6  40. h5 a4  41. g6 Rg8  

42. g7 Ke6 43. Ra7 Kf6  44. h6 Kg5 45. Bd5 +-




Conclusions:

Black was able to save the game via 18. .... Qxd1, which was proposed by Ig 

Active counterplay was attempted, but it did not really eventuate. The variation involving

21. ... Nd5 seems to save black, but the down side is that about 40 moves of intensive defensive 

technique must be endured. The variation involving 21.... Bxc3 seems inadequate.


I am not so sure that this improvement will result in a surge in popularity of the 4... g6 line.

Personally I believe that black has better chances of dynamic play and winning chances with 

the 4. ... dxe5  5. Nxe5 c6 line. 



The Alburt line involving 1. e4 Nf6  2. e5 Nd5  3. d4 d6  4. Nf3 g6  5. c4 Nb6

will always have to be part of my repertoire, because this position can be reached via transposition

from the move order  1. e4 Nf6  2. e5 Nd5  3. d4 d6  4. c4  Nb6  5. Nf3 g6. However such a

game is most likely to transpose to the exchange variation.



  
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Re: Alekhine (Grischuk-Ponomariov)
Reply #1 - 03/21/09 at 12:24:15
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Well, this one example of a thread having only one reply by the 
original poster. But here I am again

I believe that we all agree that the most interest line of the Alekhine is the Modern
(after 1 e4 Nf6 2 e5 Nd4 3 d4 d6 4 Nf3). It is not clear what people
recommend for Black but nowadays the move that is usually played
is 4 ... dxe5 5 Nxe5 c6.
In fact, it is not clear to me why 6...g6 has completely disappeared (did you see the recent wild game on this line ? - chessgames.com, for instance) amd same thought is shared by many others including
Markovich.

The line that I would like to see rehabiliated is 4...g6 line.
I think that one critical game for Black that has helped to put the variation "off limits" 
is the famous (or infamous) Grichuk Ponomariov game.

I am including some analysis that might of interest to all of you and which,
if I am not mistaken, might show that Black is not as bad as they say.

after 5 Bc4 Nb4 6 Bb3 Bg7 7 a4 a5 8 Ng5 e6 9 f4 dxe5 10 fxe5 c5
11 c3 cxd4 12 0-0 0-0 13 cxd4 Nc6 14 Nf3 f6 15 Nc3 fxe5 16 Bg5
Qd7 17 dxe5 Nxe5 18 Nxe5, the  move played in the game was Rxf1.

I wonder whether 18 .... Qxd1 is not better 
with the sequence 19 Raxd1 Rxf1 !? (Cox mentions that "19 ... Bxe5 (?!) 20 Rfe1 Bg7 21 Be7 Rf5 22 g4 Rf4 23 Bc5 was already 
winning in one game") 20 Kxf1 (this seems better than 20 Rxf1 since with the
King move, White controls the d column) Bxe5 21 Be3 and now three continuations appear interesting

i) 21 ... Nd5 22 NxN PxN 23 BxP+ Kh8 and Black is holding, no?
ii) 21... Bxc3 22 Rd8+ Kf7 23 b2xB Nd7 (Nd5!?) and again it appears that Black holds
iii) 21   Ra6 22 BxN RxB 23 Rd8+ Kf7 24 Nb5 Rc6 25 Na7 Rc1 +
26 Ke2 Rb1 27 Rxc8 Rxb2+ 28 Bc2 Bxh2 and three pawns for the piece - here I am not sure
Black appears to be Ok in lines i) and ii)

any comments?
  
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Alekhine (Grischuk-Ponomariov)
01/12/09 at 17:34:59
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The game Grischuk Ponomariov appears to be a gane that 
"killed" one variation of the Alburt line.

Interested readres should refer to J. Cox's  book or to chesspublishing.com, one of the latest pots by Volzhin which has analysed this game.

After 21. Bd8 !

The previous ... 21 ... Ra6 is considered bad (It might be!) due
to Volzhin's recommendation of 22 Rd1 !. he gave some lines.
And one of them (see also Cox's book) is
22 .... h6 (giving a luft for the King)
23 Bc2 and the Blalk's king side becomes weak.

However, what happens if Black plays 23 ... Nd5 (note that moving
the bishop from b3 to c2 has allowed this move) 24 Bxg6 Qf4.

I dont see any clear win for White.

Perhaps improvements for White can be obtained in the move 23.

And I dont think that 22.... Qd6 is the only way to prevent imediat loss.
I think this move is as bad as the worst given

any comments?, lg




  
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