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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The complete chess player (Read 4958 times)
chk
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #12 - 02/03/09 at 09:28:37
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Good comments.

on a side note: iirc Botvinnik helped Flohr to survive the war (took him to the USSR).
  
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michele
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #11 - 02/02/09 at 22:30:23
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Kasparov seems to me like an improved version of Alekhine,...

I was not a Fischer FAN, but I borrowed a book from someone and started randomly going through the games,... They are scarey,... Fischer Ivkov where he just plays along and then sacs into a known Won Rook ending,... something he had to see probably 10 full moves before he even began,... He seems like he approached Perfection

Capablanca -- was just great,... never studied, never opened a book, just sat down and played,... 

I think TAL gets overlooked often and too often placed in the Attacking or Irrational player,... I mean the guy has the longest unbeaten streak (93) of any player any time in chess history,... He won the Soviet Chmp 6 times over a period of 20 years when it could easily be called the Wimbelon of Chess,... Botvinnik also won six times but mostly during the war.  I think it was Botvinnik who said that if he (TAL) ever learned to play positionally he would be unstoppable.

No one thinks Leonid Stein was not a tactical / attacking genius???

Also, Smyslov and Lasker had better technique then Capablanca.  And during the 50's Smyslov was pretty incredible and he played all the way until 1983 at the very top level of chess.

Spassky gets a bad name because he lost to Fischer, but he was enormously talented and enormously lazy,... like Capablanca,... 

Keres,... another Modern Morphy
Rubinstein's games are incomprehensible in their scope of and breadth,... 

Salo Flohr,... You think Botvinnik made him second because he needed a practise dummy,... NOT.

Anyway, I am not sure I have answered the question,...  Undecided

  
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Crapov
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #10 - 01/29/09 at 20:58:42
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FischerTal wrote on 01/28/09 at 19:12:03:

How did you get to play Bronstein may I ask?


It was in the early 90s. I think Bronstein was staying with a guy at my chess club, at least he brought David along to the club a couple of times. There he was, probably around 70, incredibly friendly and cheerful, playing (and treating) beginners and masters alike. And after having the played the game for 60+ years, he actually looked like the one enjoying himself the most. I was a teenager at the time and I was really inspired by the attitude of this character and his love and commitment to the game. Mucho respecto!
  
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FischerTal
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #9 - 01/28/09 at 19:12:03
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Maybe you were burgled by Botvinnik 's  seconds? Wink

How did you get to play Bronstein may I ask?

I remember seeing him at tourneys in UK in late 80s early 90s, got him to sign 200 Open games and Chess Improvisor.

  
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Crapov
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #8 - 01/28/09 at 18:42:30
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chk wrote on 01/28/09 at 09:30:04:
Crapov wrote on 01/27/09 at 16:51:19:

- Originality & love for the game: Bronstein (agree with that 100%, I once had the honour of playing two 15min games against him)


Shocked you lucky **

One of the best chess personalities imo!


Out of respect for the man I had a transcript of the games hanging on my living room wall in a nice glass frame. It actually got stolen when my house was burgled some years ago, which I thought quite funny. Probably really desperate thieves
  
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Crapov
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #7 - 01/28/09 at 18:22:20
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TN wrote on 01/28/09 at 10:57:40:


Kasparov probably had the most accurate calculation of all top chess players, therefore he would be the best ever in nearly every aspect of the game, as they all involve calculation.



Interesting theory but afraid I don't agree. 

Fritz, Rybka and co might out-calculate Kasparov on any occasion but they still lack his intuition, imagination and positional understanding which would make him play certain positions much superior. 

Likewise Kasparov's ability to calculate can't make him the best in each and every aspect of chess.
  
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TN
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #6 - 01/28/09 at 10:57:40
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Crapov wrote on 01/19/09 at 18:11:40:
Recently I began for the first time to systematically acquaint myself with the masters of the chess board past and present. I found it very rewarding to study one player at a time, finding out and then focusing on his strongest aspects of the game. For example, going through Karpov's games I found his most characteristic traits to be the harmonious placement and cooperation of his pieces and his prohylactical approach to combatting his opponents plans. Something like that. This was what I paid the most attention to when studying his games. And it got me wondering of the strongest aspects of the other outstanding players. And how the complete chess player might look.

So, I'm curious to know what your candidates would be. Who is the best player in each criteria:

White Openings: Kasparov
Black Openings: Kasparov
Subtle positional play: Kasparov
Sharp complicated positions: Kasparov
Wild, irrational positions: Kasparov
Endgame technique: Kramnik, although perhaps Carlsen or Karjakin could contest this in a few years. However, it is quite well-known that Kasparov's endgame play was not at the same level as his opening and middlegame play (which was phenomenal in the 1990s, where he virtually dominated elite chess)
Attacking: Kasparov
Defending: Kasparov
Prohylaxis: Kasparov
Mental strength (fighting spirit, nerves): Kasparov
Consistency: Kasparov

Please give your thoughts, it's just for fun!



Kasparov probably had the most accurate calculation of all top chess players, therefore he would be the best ever in nearly every aspect of the game, as they all involve calculation.


  
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chk
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #5 - 01/28/09 at 09:30:04
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Crapov wrote on 01/27/09 at 16:51:19:

- Originality & love for the game: Bronstein (agree with that 100%, I once had the honour of playing two 15min games against him)


Shocked you lucky **

One of the best chess personalities imo!
  
"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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FischerTal
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #4 - 01/27/09 at 23:19:19
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White Openings: Kasparov
Black Openings: botvinnik
Subtle positional play: Karpov
Sharp complicated positions: tal
Wild, irrational positions: alekhine
Endgame technique:  Fischer
Attacking: tal
Defending: fischer
Prohylaxis: petrosian
Mental strength (fighting spirit, nerves): karpov (no way fischer for mental strength, nerves)
Consistency: Kasparov
- Originality & love for the game: korchnoi
- All-round player: Kasparov
  
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Crapov
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #3 - 01/27/09 at 16:51:19
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Thanks for that chk, a nice list!
Here are my 5 cents

White Openings: Kasparov, Anand
Black Openings: Kasparov, Topalov
Subtle positional play: Karpov
Sharp complicated positions: Kasparov
Wild, irrational positions: Tal
Endgame technique: Capablanca, Fischer
Attacking: Kasparov
Defending: Anand
Prohylaxis: Karpov
Mental strength (fighting spirit, nerves): Fischer
Consistency: Kasparov
- Originality & love for the game: Bronstein (agree with that 100%, I once had the honour of playing two 15min games against him)
- All-round player: Fischer
  
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chk
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #2 - 01/20/09 at 09:01:47
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OK, some may be a bit of a 'cliche', - but from the top of my head (I've focused only on the older generations):

New Categories:
- Originality & love for the game: Bronstein
- All-round player: Spassky

White Openings: (depends on your openings - e.g. for 1. e4: Fischer, Kasparov etc.), e.g. for opening systems: Botvinnik
Black Openings: (depends on your openings - e.g. for Najdorf: Fischer)
(if you are talking about an openings machine I suppose Kasparov fits best, Fischer was also trying hard for an opening advantage, his notes were honest and detailed and he prepared a lot)
Subtle positional play: Karpov
Sharp complicated positions: Kasparov
Wild, irrational positions: Tal (I suppose we'll all agree on that)
Endgame technique: Capablanca, Rubinstein
Attacking: Kasparov
Defending: Lasker, Petrosian
Prohylaxis: Karpov, Petrosian
Mental strength (fighting spirit, nerves): Lasker, Alekhine (esp. near the Capablanca match), Kortchnoi
Consistency: Botvinnik, Kasparov, Karpov

Note: It's time consuming to study many players in depth (so far I've managed to do this only for Fischer and still trying for a few more, namely Tal, Bronstein and Capablanca..). But it is also quite inspiring..  Cool
  
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Matemax
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Re: The complete chess player
Reply #1 - 01/19/09 at 18:32:46
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Take Korchnoi - more than 4.000 games in an usual database. You can study him for the rest of your life...
  
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Crapov
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The complete chess player
01/19/09 at 18:11:40
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Recently I began for the first time to systematically acquaint myself with the masters of the chess board past and present. I found it very rewarding to study one player at a time, finding out and then focusing on his strongest aspects of the game. For example, going through Karpov's games I found his most characteristic traits to be the harmonious placement and cooperation of his pieces and his prohylactical approach to combatting his opponents plans. Something like that. This was what I paid the most attention to when studying his games. And it got me wondering of the strongest aspects of the other outstanding players. And how the complete chess player might look.

So, I'm curious to know what your candidates would be. Who is the best player in each criteria:

White Openings:
Black Openings:
Subtle positional play:
Sharp complicated positions:
Wild, irrational positions:
Endgame technique:
Attacking:
Defending:
Prohylaxis:
Mental strength (fighting spirit, nerves):
Consistency:

Please give your thoughts, it's just for fun!



  
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