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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) A role model for amateurs? (Read 11231 times)
MNb
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #9 - 01/26/09 at 03:02:55
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Girkassa wrote on 01/26/09 at 00:26:42:
(from the 1800s, the games mainly have entertainment value today IMO).


The best ones knew a few things about initiative and active piece play. And what's more - even the mistakes of the 19th century topplayers are easy to understand.
  

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Girkassa
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #8 - 01/26/09 at 00:26:42
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From the young generation Nakamura?!


And the amateur went back to 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5, in the spirit of his role model...

On a more serious note, I agree you should be slightly reluctant to trusting the old heroes completely, but still, there is undoubtedly a lot to be learned from the early 1900s (from the 1800s, the games mainly have entertainment value today IMO). Apart from opening theory, I think there are very few principles considered good at the time that are considered bad today. However, because opening theory has developed a lot and the opening determines the middlegame to quite a large extent, you may not get the same kinds of positions as Capablanca & co. I guess it depends quite a lot on your own repertoire too.
  
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FischerTal
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #7 - 01/25/09 at 19:56:59
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I have thought about this too, I find that of the top players Kramnik's openings , personality and style seem the best fit for mine so I keep  track of his progress.

Larsen has good tips for the average player too, I find it difficult  to know much about modern players e.g. I have no idea of how Carlsen and Akopian'S style compares.

Re. how far back to go, I often look up open game theory and to be honest I think Anderssen's era played the opening at least incredibly badly.
  
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Stigma
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #6 - 01/25/09 at 19:17:32
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A related question is: In this information age, how far back in history should you go when studying the classics? If you start with, say the 1980s K-K matches and move forward, won't you be exposed to all the openings and strategies that are still relevant, while avoiding some of the misunderstandings of the past? I think it was Robert Byrne who once said that he ignored everything that happened before he was born! If I should to follow that, I must leave my precious copies of Zürich 1953, My Sixty Memorable Games, and The Life and Games of Mikhail Tal on the shelf....  Cry

For now I use the games of Morphy and Anderssen to teach development and attacking play, but then I skip forward past WW1. Capablanca, Alekhine, Botvinnik and Smyslov are great to study because their play is logical, and they had many weaker opponents who often make instructive errors. Im also partial to Nimzowitsch' games, though they don't fit his theories as well as he pretends.
  

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LeeRoth
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #5 - 01/25/09 at 17:50:09
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This is an excellent question.  I remember a teammate asking it of Gata Kamsky back around 1994 or 1995.  Kasparov and Karpov still the top two at the time, but Kamsky didn't hesitate in naming the then up-and-coming Vladimir Kramnik.  IIRC, something about the way he placed his pieces.      

  
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Matemax
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #4 - 01/25/09 at 17:12:55
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I've also had a considerable admiration for another player, from whom anyone could learn an approach to chess itself - Lasker.

Lasker sounds good. Also Korchnoi now comes to my mind. As amateurs we should probably find our heros within those with the most fighting spirit. From the young generation Nakamura?!
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #3 - 01/25/09 at 17:01:26
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Greetings,

I suppose one option for the amateur is to do what the author of the Secrets of Grandpatzer Chess blog does/recommends - play the moves that make sense to you, look them up in a openings' manual/database and learn how it should be played - so you can do that next time.

I love Capablanca's play - indeed, if I could play like someone, it would be him.

I've also had a considerable admiration for another player, from whom anyone could learn an approach to chess itself - Lasker.

Despite the attitude chess players have towards him as a Svengali-like character who seemed to lure opponents to their doom or his ability to escape, Houdini-like, from lost positions, he was the ultimate pragmatist over the board.

Soltis' book, Why Lasker Matters, captures the essence of his approach very well.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Stigma
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #2 - 01/25/09 at 15:25:50
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I just play the openings I like and/or score well with, don't spend much time worrying about which top players I'm following really... Except if a line is never played on top level I would be more skeptical and need to see some convincing analysis before taking it up.

Maybe a sneaky approach is to go back in time and model one's repertoire on some former greats? I.e. play the Open Sicilian like Fischer or Karpov, the Grünfeld like Smyslov, or the French like Petrosian. After studying those "Great Predecessor" games one could go on to update with modern theory, of course.
  

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MNb
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Re: A role model for amateurs?
Reply #1 - 01/25/09 at 12:55:05
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See left. That does not mean that I copy his openings, only that I try to play like him. Of course I too often fail miserably, but sometimes ...
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Matemax
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A role model for amateurs?
01/25/09 at 12:48:47
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We all like to follow top class players. We try to adopt their openings and then meet oponents who may have done the same. Instead of Kramnik-Aronian we play the same moves as Mr. Smith and Mr. Fish and reproduce opening lines we have seen. But as amateurs we do not have the time for the same deep study of these lines and at some point we are just somewhere in the middle of chaotic modern opening theory. Perhaps we have already analysed this position at home with the machine, but perhaps also our opponent has a nasty surprise with the help of the computer for us. Instead of playing copy cat chess it may be better to choose so called harmless sidelines which should give equality. But at least there is the chance that Mr. Smith is facing Mr. Fish and not Mr. Aronian+Rybka.

Watching the games of Nigel Short (and his comments about memory and thinking on a video) I thought he might be a perfect role model for amateurs - even beating Ex-Fide World Champ Rustam Khasimdzanov with this approach (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0!? - aiming for equality but a play-think-position).

Is Nigel Short a perfect role model? Are there other high rated players? Should we forget about following the top guns?

I am really interested about your opinion...  Roll Eyes
  
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