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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin (Read 378030 times)
moahunter
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #125 - 10/03/09 at 02:32:03
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Markovich wrote on 09/29/09 at 15:48:42:
Yeah, 1.c4 just a choice like any other, and it's a perfectly valid one.  What I resist, however, is that this is a good move order for your classical 1.d4 players.  Having to contend with 1...e5 and 1...c5 seems to me to be a huge concession to make in exchange for whatever Indian-defense-avoiding properties 1.c4 has -- strictly from the viewpoint of the 1.d4 specialist, that is.

That's a concession many of the worlds top grandmasters, including world champions, happily make. The "right" way to play c4 is not neccesarily as a "system". Many of us would rather use it as a variation, either to avoid certain lines, or because we just enjoy playing 1.c4 e4 (which I do, with the four knights). The anti-benoni, another rich enjoyable line, is also a really useful way to play against the symetrical for a d4 player, as it provides another option against a benoni or benko player - an option that will annoy many of them.
  
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MarinFan
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #124 - 09/30/09 at 13:16:56
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On the uk club player  scene anyone playing the English who didn't know about "The Dynamic English"  knew very little. This book is effectively a very detailed update to that one. So not withstanding the umm, very refined tastes of people on this forum, am sure that Marin's book will sell well. There is a whole generation of players for which 1c4 2.g3 is natural. So don't see the fuss about move order being a big deal really.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #123 - 09/30/09 at 08:44:09
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Why not send the review along with the book !? By the way, it is already sold out in Paris.
  
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Jacob Aagaard
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #122 - 09/30/09 at 07:10:54
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If we send a copy to Tony, will you make sure he reviews it? And faithfully, not with a promise of a good review  Roll Eyes

Although I can understand the attraction of buying a repertoire book in order to follow every line to the letter, I am not sure this is the way it works for me personally. To me they are a starting point, except for GM Rep 7-9, of course, which is where I have to suffer as the writer!

I like repertoire books more than complete books because I do not want the author's thoughts on lines he does not care about. Thus, I see repertoire books as the author's repertoire, and as a good suggestion in the lines where you do not already feel comfortable.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #121 - 09/30/09 at 02:48:18
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rdecredico wrote on 09/29/09 at 23:03:56:
I think it is part of human nature to feel we are missing out on something. In chess, this fear is manifests by one always thinking there is some secret move order.


Then perhaps I am not human, because I never feel like that. Instead I prefer to find out my own secret move orders to surprise and confuse my opponents.
The point is, and on this I agree with Antillian, that when using an opening book, repertoire or not, one should not only use ones brains to ask questions (why 2.g3 iso 2.Nc3 - or the other way round) but to find some answers as well. A simple tool like Chessbase' opening report often helps.
All the repertoire books I have seen from the last 10 years or so are consistent.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #120 - 09/30/09 at 00:28:43
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Antillian wrote on 09/29/09 at 19:26:33:

It is strange that people get worked up over any choice in any repertoire book. Is it so hard to understand that every choice is a trade-off? Okay, I can understand if people get upset if a writer chooses a line that is just plain bad.


Usually the discussion revolves around those trade offs. Also I find that most authors do not clearly discuss these trade offs and sometimes they even try to promote their own preference without explaining the idea behind the alternative moves. Beyond all this there is a simple question of consistency of a repertoire ... which at times is not trivial.
  
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rdecredico
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #119 - 09/29/09 at 23:03:56
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Antillian wrote on 09/29/09 at 19:26:33:


It is strange that people get worked up over any choice in any repertoire book. Is it so hard to understand that every choice is a trade-off?



I think it is part of human nature to feel we are missing out on something.    In chess, this fear is manifests by one always thinking there is some secret move order, or sequence that is known, but being kept from one for some reason.   Some people actually labor under the assumption that there is a single truth somewhere to be found.

Certainly, there is business to be culled from keeping this philosophy alive.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #118 - 09/29/09 at 19:26:33
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TonyRo wrote on 09/29/09 at 15:27:18:

It's just a personal choice, It's strange to me that people are getting so worked up over this 2. g3 vs. 2. Nc3 thing.


It is strange that people get worked up over any choice in any repertoire book. Is it so hard to understand that every choice is a trade-off? Okay, I can understand if people get upset if a writer chooses a line that is just plain bad. But for lines that are fundamentally sound, for the life of me, it if beyond me to understand why so many people have the mindset: "How dare this repertoire book author not choose all  the lines that I play and prefer!!  Angry". You would think that these people are the ones that personally commissioned the writer to write the book?  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #117 - 09/29/09 at 18:13:45
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I would think White should be rather happy in the case of 3...d4, where he could end up with a Benoni with two extra tempi.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #116 - 09/29/09 at 18:08:23
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Mythos wrote on 09/29/09 at 17:35:24:
In which case white has to deal with both 3...dxc4 and 3...d4 as possibilities, and is forced to play a Reti instead of the desired Catalan. 

Alias wrote on 09/29/09 at 16:26:32:
Mythos wrote on 09/29/09 at 16:22:39:
With 1.c4 2.g3, is there a way to transpose to the Catalan without allowing Black to equalize easily? e.g.

1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.d4 dxc4 4.Nf3/Bg2 c5, which if I recall, equalizes for Black, according to Davies in "Play the Catalan" (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3?!).



3.Nf3 Nf6 4.d4, I suppose.



So your initial question was rhetorical? The move order I suggested is the most common way to reach the Catalan from 1.c4. I don't think black equalises easily in either the Catalan or your suggested deviations.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #115 - 09/29/09 at 17:35:24
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In which case white has to deal with both 3...dxc4 and 3...d4 as possibilities, and is forced to play a Reti instead of the desired Catalan. 

Alias wrote on 09/29/09 at 16:26:32:
Mythos wrote on 09/29/09 at 16:22:39:
With 1.c4 2.g3, is there a way to transpose to the Catalan without allowing Black to equalize easily? e.g.

1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.d4 dxc4 4.Nf3/Bg2 c5, which if I recall, equalizes for Black, according to Davies in "Play the Catalan" (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3?!).



3.Nf3 Nf6 4.d4, I suppose.

  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #114 - 09/29/09 at 16:26:32
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Mythos wrote on 09/29/09 at 16:22:39:
With 1.c4 2.g3, is there a way to transpose to the Catalan without allowing Black to equalize easily? e.g.

1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.d4 dxc4 4.Nf3/Bg2 c5, which if I recall, equalizes for Black, according to Davies in "Play the Catalan" (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3?!).



3.Nf3 Nf6 4.d4, I suppose.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #113 - 09/29/09 at 16:22:39
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With 1.c4 2.g3, is there a way to transpose to the Catalan without allowing Black to equalize easily? e.g.

1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.d4 dxc4 4.Nf3/Bg2 c5, which if I recall, equalizes for Black, according to Davies in "Play the Catalan" (1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3?!).

  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #112 - 09/29/09 at 15:48:42
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Yeah, 1.c4 just a choice like any other, and it's a perfectly valid one.  What I resist, however, is that this is a good move order for your classical 1.d4 players.  Having to contend with 1...e5 and 1...c5 seems to me to be a huge concession to make in exchange for whatever Indian-defense-avoiding properties 1.c4 has -- strictly from the viewpoint of the 1.d4 specialist, that is.

If I included 1.c4 in my repertoire, I would look upon it as a major new approach to the opening for me, not as a variation on 1.d4.

I realize that what I'm getting worked up about here is not the g3/Nc3 thing that other people are worked up about.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #111 - 09/29/09 at 15:27:18
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It's just a choice like any other choice anyway. Given that it's a repertoire book using the English Opening exclusively, the option to play the QGD Exchange is pretty irrelevant. There are also move order issues when you consider that Black can play ...e5 on move two and force you into something else if you had not played. For instance, you have to map out your responses to 1...c6 and 1...Nf6 such that they agree transpositionally with your responses to 1...e5, since in both of these choices, Black can play 2...e5. So if you want to play the pawn offer lines like 1...c6 2. g3 d5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bg2 dxc4, then you have to meet 1...c6 with 2. Nf3 or 2. g3, similarly with 1...Nf6. 

Also, not committing the knight to c3 is useful in other lines as well, for instance against 1...e6 or 1...c6 when Black takes on c4. White has Na3 options. 

It's just a personal choice, It's strange to me that people are getting so worked up over this 2. g3 vs. 2. Nc3 thing.
  
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