There is a difference between trivial statements and science. I am not making a trivial statement, neither is Marin. We talking about theoretical proof of an opening advantage and not that the better player is more likely to outplay his opponent from virtually any position. This isn't about arrogance of vanity either. It is about facts, conclusions and false promise.

When he claims that white has an advantage in that specific line, he claims to know something that databases cannot prove, that engine analysis cannot prove and that top class GMs like Carlsen, Anand, Ivanchuk, Topalov, Bareev, Leko, Gelfand (add whomever you wish) do not seem to know either.

Maybe it is the other way around and Marin doesn't know something that the whole world except him seems to know.

Now, first of all, I want to show you something. Another poster in this thread mentioned that Marin is recommending the Bg5-line and tries to exploit that black plays h6. His proof probably consists of some games where a 2600-player beat some 2400-player, because Jobava vs. NN is pretty much the most recent reference.

I have not checked that game and obviously I don't know Marin's analysis, but believe it or not, black doesn't even have to play h6. If you check this with your database you will find a transposition to games played by Polugaevsky and other big names and guess what, none of them lost (against equal opponents). Bg5 isn't better than Bd2 or Bf4 as none of these moves leads to anything.

Second, I want to show you something that I know from the pdf-sample from the publisher about the first book of that series. This sample tells me a lot!

Let's take a look at the line: 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 c6 4.c4 dxc4 5.0-0 b5 6.a4 Bb7 7.b3 cxb3 8.Qxb3 Nbd7 9.Ba3 a6 10.Rc1 Qb6. Here Marin gives analysis by someone else (obviously he doesn't want to take responsibility) that goes 11.Ng5 e6 12.Bxf8 Rxf8 13.Nc3 with "compensation". Amazingly the totally obvious 13...h6 14.Nge4 Nxe4 15.Nxe4 c5 equalizes on the spot, so much about that...

TonyRo wrote on 11/23/10 at 21:57:11:


Well, I am just going with the results of my database and the results of computer analysis plus my own experience of 30+ years as player and trainer and about 500 useless books titled "Winning with the xxx" on my shelf.

Everyone knows that the e6-line is a draw, you knew it also. You are just hoping that Marin is right. 

Equality in this line has been established all the way back in the Botvinnik-Smyslov match and the assessment has never really changed. This line is the main reason why you don't see that moveorder on the highest level anymore and if you don't believe me then ask Leko who always plays e6.

Btw, it isn't me who is arrogant and claiming that white has an advantage against all practical evidence, it is Marin. He made the absurd statement after all.

I now have all 3 books of Marin on 1.c4 and I have to agree. I have found several lines in which I dont trust his evaluation and 5...e6 "The Fischer System" is indeed one of them. For instance in his line with A) b6N    (1. c4 c5 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 Bg7 4. Nc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 e6 6. d3 Nge7 7. Bg5 b6!?) and now 8.d4, he notes that after  "8...h6 9.Bxe7 Qxe7 10.d5 Na5 11.Qd3 Black is underdeveloped and his light squares are weak, while the knight is passive on a5".
First of all, I'm not sure at all that the final position is indeed better for White and even if this was the case I still think that 9...Nxe7! is better and I, personally, prefer the Black pieces.

Now, there's a good few of other examples in which I believe White has no advantage even though Marin seems to think so, and maybe if people are interested and willing to share their ideas and insigths, I/we could compile a list of these critical lines, for further discussion...

Very funny Zoo and probably sadly true ... Quote:

I cannot understand Neric's statement. For example Watson in his MCO volume for the english doesn't share this opinion and goes to show that White has an advantage, and a quite significant one, with a Qc1 move if i remember correct. As i know Marin recommends something else for White. To me, this variation that was used bt Fisher is not as sound as many beleieved in the past.

Also, together with BPaulsen we had analysed some dangerous ideas against the Hed that you can find in this foroum

Neric wrote on 11/23/10 at 21:52:01:


Hmm....where have I read this before?

Neric wrote on 11/23/10 at 21:52:01:


What an overly arrogant post. You're better than a 2600 GM English specialist, and have no need to hear what he says, because you're so sure of yourself!? 

I'm not saying he proves anything (I haven't looked at it either), just that you certainly can't prove he didn't because you think you know everything about said variation. Now evaluations have been overturned with the discovery of a single idea? 

Ridiculous.

Swann wrote on 11/21/10 at 16:48:46:


In that case the Nd2-f1-e3 plan seems effective, e.g. 1.c4 c5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2 e5 4.Nc3 d6 5.Nf3 f5 (5...g6 6.d3 Bg7 transposes to Marin's repertoire) 6.d3 Nf6 7.Bg5 Be7 8.Nd2! 0-0 9.Nf1 h6?! 10.Bf6 Bf6 10.Ne3.