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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin (Read 377992 times)
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #80 - 09/21/09 at 11:05:03
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ghenghisclown wrote on 09/21/09 at 09:37:08:
"White can easily avoid GID and NID/ghenghisclown0 (and others)"

Not so fast! It's not at all easy to avoid a King's Indian. To do so usually lands you in an inferior line. I've checked Dynamic English, Soltis' book, and others...usually a transposition to the Fianchetto KID is indicated or you get a sloppy line that actually works against White. At least in my study and experience this has been the case.


I didn't include the KID in my list. "And others" referred to the Budapest gambit and similar d4 openings. (I should have mentioned that.) Black can play in KID-style vs the english without d4 with reasonable success.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #79 - 09/21/09 at 11:01:47
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The anti-Grünfeld, the anti-Nimzo and and anti-QID are of course somewhat similar to the respective d4 opening, but they are different and can be a very good reason to play 1.c4 (or 1.Nf3). More so than your suggestion of anti-QGD, in my opinion.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #78 - 09/21/09 at 10:16:29
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Alias wrote on 09/21/09 at 07:13:40:
I disagree. White can easily avoid GID and NID/Alias1 (and others). This is important. It's a matter of taste if you prefer playing vs NID/Alias1 (and others) or you think you have better chances of getting an advantage vs 1.c4 c5 or 1.c4 e5. [White can also try 1.Nf3 which avoids many e5 lines but it's less flexible.]


You mean avoid as in "Opening for White according to Kramnik"? I don't think you can classify those "Anti-X" systems as pure English positions. At best they are hybrids and you can not do without 1. d4 theory.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #77 - 09/21/09 at 09:37:08
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"White can easily avoid GID and NID/QID (and others)"

Not so fast! It's not at all easy to avoid a King's Indian. To do so usually lands you in an inferior line. I've checked Dynamic English, Soltis' book, and others...usually a transposition to the Fianchetto KID is indicated or you get a sloppy line that actually works against White. At least in my study and experience this has been the case.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #76 - 09/21/09 at 07:33:27
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 09/11/09 at 13:22:27:


Just as in [Marin's] games, where 2600+ players have gone down one after another in the last two years, this is not just a repertoire for punters, but one that has taken him to 2620 (I think it is now).



I  would like to see this claim substantiated. I checked on FIDE's site on Marin's rating progress, and it comes mainly from better results with black. He mostly draws with White against lower-rated opposition.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #75 - 09/21/09 at 07:13:40
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F22 wrote on 09/21/09 at 06:58:17:
moahunter wrote on 09/20/09 at 22:21:05:
^The second book is the key, how it handles the symetircal also (the lines without an early Nf3/d4 can be a bit dull I find).

In OTB play, most black players I play seem to aim to transpose into Gruenfeld, QQD, Slav, or KID (using 2. d5, e6, c6, g6 or Nf6). It is just a simpler way to manage a repertoire, than learning an English system. If this book provides an interesting way to play with white against such players without going into d4 lines, while still getting an advantage, then it will be worth gold. I don't know if it is possible though - we will see.

The problem with using Avrukh's book, is it will probably leave open a Catalan transposition- the Catalan is a massive system, might as well play 1.d4, or 1.nf3 if you want to leave open that option.


Compare two ways of aiming for the English: 1. Nf3 and 1. c4. The first option does not allow 1. ... e5 but Black can play 1. ... d5. The second option allows 1. ... e5, but it rules out an immediate ... d5. 

Playing 1. c4 only makes sense if one can avoid the main lines of 1. d4 d5 with reasonable theoretical success. However I am not sure how White manages to avoid KID, GID or NID/moahunter4 (where Black does not engage in the center immediately) and how this affects the consistency of the repertoire. Only Marin's suggestions about Black's attempt to move towards a 1. d4 d5 line is relevant. I don't know if that has been mentioned already but I would like to know what he recommends against 1. ... c6, 1. ... e6 and 1. ... Nf6 & 2. ... e6.


I disagree. White can easily avoid GID and NID/QID (and others). This is important. It's a matter of taste if you prefer playing vs NID/QID (and others) or you think you have better chances of getting an advantage vs 1.c4 c5 or 1.c4 e5. [White can also try 1.Nf3 which avoids many e5 lines but it's less flexible.]
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #74 - 09/21/09 at 06:58:17
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moahunter wrote on 09/20/09 at 22:21:05:
^The second book is the key, how it handles the symetircal also (the lines without an early Nf3/d4 can be a bit dull I find).

In OTB play, most black players I play seem to aim to transpose into Gruenfeld, QQD, Slav, or KID (using 2. d5, e6, c6, g6 or Nf6). It is just a simpler way to manage a repertoire, than learning an English system. If this book provides an interesting way to play with white against such players without going into d4 lines, while still getting an advantage, then it will be worth gold. I don't know if it is possible though - we will see.

The problem with using Avrukh's book, is it will probably leave open a Catalan transposition- the Catalan is a massive system, might as well play 1.d4, or 1.nf3 if you want to leave open that option.


Compare two ways of aiming for the English: 1. Nf3 and 1. c4. The first option does not allow 1. ... e5 but Black can play 1. ... d5. The second option allows 1. ... e5, but it rules out an immediate ... d5. 

Playing 1. c4 only makes sense if one can avoid the main lines of 1. d4 d5 with reasonable theoretical success. However I am not sure how White manages to avoid KID, GID or NID/QID (where Black does not engage in the center immediately) and how this affects the consistency of the repertoire. Only Marin's suggestions about Black's attempt to move towards a 1. d4 d5 line is relevant. I don't know if that has been mentioned already but I would like to know what he recommends against 1. ... c6, 1. ... e6 and 1. ... Nf6 & 2. ... e6.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #73 - 09/21/09 at 06:52:18
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If you don't understand the point of the english opening or transpositions to d4-openings you're surely better off getting a beginner's book on openings.

The simple view of the opening is that leads to positional play and let's white choose whether to enter d4 openings or not (vs other responses than 1...e5 and 1...c5). No Nimzo, Benkö, Benoni, Grünfeld and others. 

Books like Khalifman's on Kramnik's repertoire enters d4 openings. Kosten's and Marin's stay away from d4 openings.

Versus 1...e6 and 2...d5 black can choose to play QGD, Catalan or Reti. Reti is the simpliest but has had a reputation of not putting much pressure on black. I'm keen to see what Marin suggests.
  

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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #72 - 09/20/09 at 22:21:05
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^The second book is the key, how it handles the symetircal also (the lines without an early Nf3/d4 can be a bit dull I find).

In OTB play, most black players I play seem to aim to transpose into Gruenfeld, QQD, Slav, or KID (using 2. d5, e6, c6, g6 or Nf6). It is just a simpler way to manage a repertoire, than learning an English system. If this book provides an interesting way to play with white against such players without going into d4 lines, while still getting an advantage, then it will be worth gold. I don't know if it is possible though - we will see.

The problem with using Avrukh's book, is it will probably leave open a Catalan transposition- the Catalan is a massive system, might as well play 1.d4, or 1.nf3 if you want to leave open that option.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #71 - 09/20/09 at 21:07:56
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I assume that is when your opponent doesn't play e5, then you play d4 and transpose into queen's pawn openings.

Which leads me to wonder if there's any benefit in playing the english. I 'm fascinated by the positions it creates, unfortunately though, I see no use for it if I intend to meet non-e5 responses with d4. Then basically it's as if I 'm giving my opponent more options on move 1 and should be opening with d4 in the first place.

Thus, it's definetely the second book that will decide whether this is worth it or not.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #70 - 09/20/09 at 12:38:50
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Hi

Is it really true, that the move order in this book allows white to go back to the Avrukh openings? Cause if that is so I will definetely get a copy. But how do you know? This book only covers 1.c4 e5, which can not be played against 1.d4. Can somebody point out to me in which lines and how you can swith back to Avrukh? Smiley

Thanks Grin
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #69 - 09/20/09 at 09:15:51
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All of these good reviews are making me want to get this book too! Essentially the repertoire looks like a new version of Kosten's Dynamic English, but with a bit more theory to get your teeth into.

Regarding the 2nd book - if the repertoire starts 1.c4 + 2.g3 then its safe to say we are going to get Reti setups vs 1...e6 and (possibly) a Reversed Sicilian against the KID move order. Its how Marin answers this last one will determine how useful and independent the whole repertoire is. Avoiding transposition to a KID is the English player's perennial problem. Unless you like the Rev Sicilian, of course.

The good news is, Marin's move order means the entire repertoire appears to be compatible with Avrukh's 1.d4 - so if you don't like the Reti lines, or the KID lines, then just switch to Avrukh.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #68 - 09/20/09 at 06:24:44
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Impressive book certainly. Very detailed, hugely instructive.

Just one query thus far.

Page 166

c4 e5
g3 Nc6
Nc3 g6
Bg2 Bg7
e4 d6
Nge2 Nf6
d3  0-0
0-0 Nd7
Be3 Nd4 (!) (exclam from chesspub archives I think, though my files are merged with 1-100 Informants and the ChessBase mags articles so not sure)

Our game then followed:
Rodrigues,J-Askarov,B/St.Lorenzo 1995.
Qd2 a5
h3 Nc5
f4 c6

=


Seems sensible to me, and clearly to my opponent who played it just earlier in friendly OTB. Not covered in the book, (9...Nc5 given), perhaps an inadvertent omission.
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #67 - 09/19/09 at 23:25:12
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I am about 40 pages in, and I absolutely love the book. Certainly a must for English players. His explanation is insightful, and his coverage in quite good. Even though I've played the English on and off since the start of my chess career, I am still surprised as to how Dynamic and incisive the positions become ones the sides plans run smack into each other. Certainly the best book written on 1. c4 e5 so far. If Volume 2 is anything like Volume 1, my life is complete!  Grin
  
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Re: Grandmaster Repertoire 1.c4 by Marin
Reply #66 - 09/19/09 at 08:14:43
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Got the book yesterday. Read the Intro and Karpov variation. Still, Marin doesnt explain clearly enough why the move order is 2.g3 and 3. Nc3, why avoid 3. Bg2?? 

I was happy to read Marins comment on Pallisers "easy equalizer" statements.
  
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