Normal Topic Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !? (Read 4445 times)
chk
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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #8 - 03/19/09 at 10:00:25
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Let's hope it'll pop up in another game! (from my experience Whites tend to use a lot the Nd5-leap when they run out of ideas in the opening).

Looking again at the line you give, maybe the Maroczy approach is playable but a bit premature, I now think stronger is for White to play on the hole keeping a positional plus: 14.Rfd1 (White does not need the Maroczy for the moment, now there's the nice outpost at d5 and can try to prove Be7 is a 'bad' Bishop) Nf6 15.Qd3 Rac8 16.c3 Ng4 17.h3 Nxe3 18.Qxe3 Rfd8 etc. White can establish a Maroczy set-up later on..

All in all, it's a matter of taste - I find it too passive for Black..

P.S.: 6. Bg5!? is a pain, but also the best ground for preparation. If you manage to hit gold, your opponent won't have a clue OTB!  Cool
  

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parisestmagique
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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #7 - 03/18/09 at 09:43:01
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After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be7 8.Bc4 O-O 9.O-O Qc7 10.Bb3 Be6 11.Nd5 Nxd5 12.Bxd5 Bxd5 13.Qxd5 Nd7 14.c4 it seems to me that b5 gives a decent play for Black (and without pawn sacrifice) Anyway my opponent went for 6.Bg5!? and through out of the window this nice preparation !
  
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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #6 - 03/13/09 at 15:05:52
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I don't see the point behind the Bg4 idea, one possible reaction I would expect is playing for the d5-hole (another option I see is going for O-O-O):
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 
6. Be3 e5 7. Nf3 Bg4 8. h3 Bh5 (8. ... BxNf3 is probably better but after 9. QxNf3 White can play for the d5-hole) 9. Bc4 Qc7 10. Bd5 Nbd7 11. Bg5 Nxd5, looks like a simple plan to take advantage of the d5-hole (Bd5 to protect Pe4 / Bg5 at first opportunity / now Qd3 is an option protecting the Knight and Pe4 / the b5-break looks difficult to prepare for Black / White has also saved 2 tempi by omitting a4-a5 and has no hole at b4 => hence deters ...Nc6!).

On the 8. Bc4 line:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 
6. Be3 e5 7. Nf3 Be7 8. Bc4 O-O (imo better first 8. ... Qc7) 9. O-O Qc7 10. Bb3 Be6 11. Nd5 looks fine for White to me (e.g. 11. ... Nxd5 12. Bxd5 Bxd5 13. Qxd5 Nd7 14. c4 with a good Maroczy Bind, since ...b5 is difficult without involving a pawn sacrifice).

But I may be wrong as the 8. Bc4 line is an important theoretical branch of the Najdorf which I do not know (as I do not play it).. Wink
  

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parisestmagique
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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #5 - 03/13/09 at 11:06:20
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You are probably right, 7.Nf3 Be6 looks better than it's reputation in theorical books (just bad) but a bit chaotic !
I think that after an early Qc7 White plays Be2!? and goes for a4,a5 and Nd5. He will try to advance on the Queenside. 
The more i look at 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 
6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be7 8.Bc4 0-0 9.0-0 Qc7 10.Bb3 Be6 11.Qe2 Rc8!? the more i like Black's position. What do you think ?
  
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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #4 - 03/13/09 at 10:53:17
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and what about 7...Bg4!?, i think is not clear how white gets the advantage here.
  

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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #3 - 03/13/09 at 10:12:19
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OK, maybe you or Rybka are right (I mean Black is not behind in material or anything, so all lines seem 'playable'), but my personal likings are as follows:

a) The 1st line quoted (early-Be6) looks a tad chaotic to me and with long-term inherent positional problems.

b) My line given with h6 and Be6xNd7 covers for the holes in Black's position and I personally prefer this to Gelfand's ..b6 plan that he uses to stop a5. I also remember Gelfand using this set-up against the 6. Be2 line with an early 9. Kh1 (so I see a preference of his for this set-up).

c) The line you quote in the Short-Gelfand model game: i) I don't see why this position is bad for Black, so can you please elaborate?, ii) If you do like this line, I suggest the following plan (instead of Gelfand's ...b6): 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e5 7. Nf3 Qc7 8. a4 Be7 9. Be2 O-O 10. a5 Nbd7 and Black can try to equalise by preparing the b5-break and/or the d5-break (e.g. 11. Nd2 b5!). 2 notes:
- If you go for ..b6 or ..b5 you need to keep your Bishop at c8/b7;
- You can also try the ..a5 system which takes away the a5 square from a Knight (if you like the same system vs. 7. Nb3).

hope that helps  Wink
  

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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #2 - 03/12/09 at 15:19:43
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After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 8.Ng5 Nc6 9.NxBe6 fxN 10.Bc4 Qd7 11.Na4 is interesting but after Qf7 12.Nb6 Rd8 Rybka suggest 13.Qf3 but after d5 14.exd5 Nxd5 "he thinks" Black is ok.
I dont like 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Qc7 and more important Georgiev/Kolev neither ! 8.a4 Be7 9.Be2! i dont see how Black equalize, a model game is Short-Guelfand Novgorod 1996.
  
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Re: Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
Reply #1 - 03/12/09 at 12:24:31
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I found another game (Haeusler-Zebisch, 2006, 1-0) where White prefers 11.Na4-b6 instead of 11.a4. Black prepares a d5-break, but I think that the 3 pawn islands for Black, jeopardise any long-term positional advantage. So, your problem is not the 'playable' middlegame, but the 'less playable' late middlegame/endgame.

I personally prefer 7. ... Qc7, which stops Bc4 all the same and prepares an improved version of ...Be6, e.g.:
8. a4 h6 9. a5 Be6 10. Nd5 BxNd5 11. exBd7 Nbd7 12. c4 Be7 13. Be2 O-O 14. O-O and now maybe 14. ... Ng4.
  

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Najdorf 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 ?! or !?
03/12/09 at 08:48:18
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In the Najdorf White sometimes play the almost "risk free" position 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be3 e5 7.Nf3
What do you think of the idea used in the game Karjakin-Anand Blind 2008 Nice France : 7.Nf3 Be6 after 8.Ng5 Nc6 9.NxBe6 fxN 10.Bc4 Qd7 11.a4 Be7 12.0-0 Rc8 13.Qe2 0-0 14.Rad1 Bd8 Black had a very imbalanced and playable game. In all Najdorf theory books they say : 7.Nf3!? Be6? bad because of 8.Ng5!. Do you see (know) a way for White to get a plus ?
« Last Edit: 03/12/09 at 13:42:10 by parisestmagique »  
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