ChessPub Forum - C03,C05: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 10..g5

Tolotos YaBB Newbies Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 13 Location: Graz Joined: 02/16/04	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #10 - 09/08/10 at 01:41:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Be7 4.Ngf3 Nf6 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bd3 c5 7.c3 Nc6 8.0-0 a5 9.a4!? 0-0!?(or 9...cxd4 10.cxd4 0-0) although white get some attacking chances on the kingside,black scores quite good so far. I have also looked at 9.Re1: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 Nd2 Be7 4.Ngf3 Nf6 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bd3 c5 7.c3 Nc6 8.0-0 a5 9.Re1 cxd4 10.cxd4 Qb6 11.Nb1! Nxd4 12.Nxd4 Qxd4 13.Nc3 Qb6 14.Qg4 Kf8 15.Nb5 Nc5 16.Be3 Bd7 17.Nd6 Bxd6 18.exd6 (Rublevsky-Lputian 2003) instead of 18...Qxd6 I find 18...Rc8!? better. 18...Rc8 19.Bd4 f6 20.Qf3 (20.Qg3!?) Kf8 21.Qg3 Qd8 22.Bf5 e5 23.Rac1(23.Bxd7 Qxd7 24.Bxe5 fxe5 25.Qxe5 h6 26.Qxd5 Qf7 27.Qd4 b6 28.Rad1 Qf6) Bxf5 24.Bxc5 b6 25.Ba3 Kf7 26.f4 (26.Qb3 Be6) Re8 27.Rxc8 Qxc8 28.fxe5 Rxe5 29.Rxe5 fxe5 30.Qxe5 Qc1+ = 18...Rc8 19.Qg3 h5 20.Bd4 f6 21.h4 Qd8 22.Bf5 (22.Bg6 !?) e5 23.Rxe5 fxe5 24.Bxe5 Bxf5 25.Qxg7 Ke8 26.Qxh8 Kd7 27.Qxh5 Be6 28.Qh7+ Kc6 with a chaotic position Another improvement over Rublevsky-Lputian: 18...Qxd6 19.Qg3 Qc6 20.Rac1 b6 21.Rc3 h5 22.h4 and now 22...e5!? 23.Qxe5 Re8 24.Qd4 Rh6 25.Rec1 Rhe6 26.Rxc5 Qb6 28.Rxd5 Qxd4 29.Bxd4 Bc6 30.Rxh5 Rh6 31.Rxh6 gxh6 White is slightly better in this endgame but difficult to win.


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #9 - 09/07/10 at 14:30:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	RandomPatzer wrote on 03/13/10 at 14:16:14: One question I have in this line is why can't black play the simple and obvious 14...Nxd4 eg 15.Qxg4 Bc5 perhaps intending ...Qh4. Indeed - that looks decent enough for Black to me. A kind of problem I have with the whole line, although its an early deviation, is 9.a4!? to stymy Blacks queenside counterplay instead of 9.Re1. I noticed this idea is becoming more popular and Adams is playing it, so far its been scoring heavily.


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RandomPatzer YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 15 Joined: 09/06/08 Gender:	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #8 - 03/13/10 at 14:16:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	Computer informs me that 24.Qg3 is winning for white {eg ...e5 25.Bh6 Kxf7 26.Qg7 Ke6 27.Bf5+!} in the last line. So black has to improve, and it offers 22...e5 23.Bxf6 Bxg4 24.Qf1 Qxf1 25.Rxf1 Rxh5 which seems very unclear, black maybe ok since f7 seems to be dropping. One question I have in this line is why can't black play the simple and obvious 14...Nxd4 eg 15.Qxg4 Bc5 perhaps intending ...Qh4.


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dom

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Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5
Reply #7 - 03/13/10 at 13:35:11

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Ideas in this line are coming back OTB in recent game Valenti-Cioara,Rijeka 2010

[Event "11th EICC Men"]
[Site "Rijeka CRO"]
[Date "2010.03.07"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Valenti,G"]
[Black "Cioara,A"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2124"]
[BlackElo "2430"]
[EventDate "2010.03.06"]
[ECO "C06"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Ngf3 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Bd3 a5 8.O-O Be7 9. Re1 cxd4 10. cxd4 g5 11. h3 h5 12. Nf1 g4 13. hxg4 hxg4 14. N3h2
Bb4 15. Re3 Qh4 16. Rg3 f5 17. exf6 Nxf6 18. Bf4 Ke7 19. Be5 Bd7 20. a3 Bd6 21. Qe1 Rag8 22. Qe2 Nxe5 23. dxe5 Nh5 24. Rxg4 Nf4 25. Qf3 Rxg4 0-1

Point move is 14...Bb4 but I think that Black doesn't play best move after 17.exf6 and must try the pawn sacrifice17...Bd6!

because after 17..Nxf6 18.Bf4 (or 18.Be3 with same idea as follows) Ke7 19.Qc1! (instead of 19.Be5) with a queen trap (White threating Bg5).

After the sacrifice, I have not run all the analysis, only
18.f7+ Kf8 19.Rxg4 Bxh2+ 20.Kh1 Qxf2 21.Nxh2 Nf6 22.Bg5 Nxg4 23.Qxg4 Qxd4 24.Qxd4 Nxd4 25.Bf6 Rxh2+ 26.Kxh2 Nf5=

Can you improve for one side White or Black ?

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.” - Groucho Marx

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dom God Member Offline Posts: 908 Location: Toulouse Joined: 01/11/03 Gender:	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #6 - 12/02/09 at 22:43:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yes... For me idea subject of thread with 14...g3 is not so good. Black has to prefer other systems, one of them given by Eingorn (playing h5 instead of g5, giving less power to dxc5 move for White)

	“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.” - Groucho Marx
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ship YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 3 Joined: 12/01/09	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #5 - 12/01/09 at 23:05:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thx for this interesting line from Dom. One line i feel favours white is 15.Nxg3 Nxd4 16.Qg4 Bb4 17.Bg5 Rg8. After the forced sequence(forced for black) 18 Bxd8 Rxg4 19 Nxg4 Bxe1 20 Bg5! Bb4 21 Nh5 we have an endgame where the pawn structure in theory is favourable for black, but where white has an initiative because black has a hard time coordinating. White can put black under a considerable positional pressure by playing a quick f4, land a knight on f6 and use his rook actively.


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dom God Member Offline Posts: 908 Location: Toulouse Joined: 01/11/03 Gender:	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #4 - 05/25/09 at 10:42:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks for your posts (Glenn,BPaulsen,Milen Petrov)... @MilenPetrov: OK for analysis...White is still litle better in the ending after 21.Nh5 or 21.Rc&...we can assess += in the ending. @Glenn and BPaulsen: yes, I agree with BPaulsen,..after Qh4 line, Black seems little better...maybe because White doesnt' succeed without queen @BPaulsen: 10...g5!? 11.Nb1!? g4 12.Nfd2 h5 13.Nc3 Nxd4 14.Nf1 Nc6 is Hartley-Thomas,4NCL 2005 game...and here I would like to improve with 15...Nf8 (instead of 15...Na7)

	“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.” - Groucho Marx
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MilenPetrov Senior Member Offline Winnie the Pooh Rules :) Posts: 353 Location: Varna, Bulgaria Joined: 04/03/08 Gender:	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #3 - 05/19/09 at 12:13:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	I have also looked at 11.h4 but then after 11...h6 12.hxg5 hxg5 13.g4 Qb6 seems that Black has no problems at all (he is even slightly better i think). But in the line 11.h3 h5 12.Nf1 g4 13.hxg4 hxg4 14.N3h2 g3 15.Nxg3 Nxd4 16.Qg4 Bb4! 17.Bg5 Rg8 White may play 18.Bxd8! Rxg4 19.Nxg4 Bxe1 20.Bg5 Bb4 21.Nh5 or 21.Rc1 and I feel that he is better. In the latter line 17.Re3 looks weaker because of 17...Qh4! and Black is better. 11. Nb1!? g4 12. Nfd2 h5 13. Nc3 Nxd4 14. Nf1 Nc6 (or 14...Nc5) and again Black seems to be better. But 14.Nb3 Nxb3 15. axb3 Nc5 looks better for White than 14.Nf1.


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BPaulsen God Member Offline I Love Light Squares! Posts: 1702 Location: Anaheim, CA, USA Joined: 11/02/08 Gender:	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #2 - 05/19/09 at 10:04:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	10...g5!? 11. Nb1!? might be more critical. Play might follow 11...g4 12. Nfd2 h5 13. Nc3 Nxd4 14. Nf1, and how to proceed best isn't clear. White has a sort of nagging pressure, and indeed white has won the only two games I can find this line in. Aside from that, 17. Re3 like Glenn mentioned needs attention, but the more I look at the position after 17...Qh4 18. Qxh4 Rxh4 the more I like black. White is totally uncoordinated, and e5 is weaker than it is strong. Your idea is very good dom, and if 12. Nb1!? amounts to nothing for white, then this line is fully viable for black barring some new try by white.

	2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE. FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 - 10..g5 Reply #1 - 05/19/09 at 08:05:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	15.Nxg3 Nxd4 16.Qg4 (16.Ng4 Rh4 17.Be3 Nc6) Bb4! This all looks quite interesting. What about 17.Re3!? Looks awkward but for the moment I'm not sure what Black's best is.


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dom God Member Offline Posts: 908 Location: Toulouse Joined: 01/11/03 Gender:	C03,C05: Tarrasch Universal System with a5 10..g5 05/09/09 at 18:44:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	No competition in sight...but I continue to post ideas (now I have kinished KIA work...I start Tarrasch classical closed line) I recall first moves from game Halasz-Knaak, Kecskemet op. 1985 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Bd3 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.Ngf3 (universal system typical for Nd2-Ngf3-c3-Bd3 and e5 pawn advance) Be7 8.0-0 a5 (g5!? is one main alternative, and subject in New In Chess and many many games...but the idea to play on queenside is common) 9.Re1 cxd4 10.cxd4 g5!? (10...Qb6 Nedev-Bauer,Bled 2002...with typical modern move 10.Nb1! leading position to a kind of Millner Barry) 11.h3 h5 12.Nf1 g4 13.hxg4 hxg4 14.N3h2 and now, what do you think about 14...g3 ? Idea is to improve over 14...Nxd4 (where White has aggressive plan with Qg4) and 14...Bb4!?. 15.Nxg3 Nxd4 16.Qg4 (16.Ng4 Rh4 17.Be3 Nc6) Bb4! 17.Bg5 Rg8 or 17.Qxd4 Bxe1 15.fxg3?! Nxd4 16.Qg4 Bc5 17.Be3 Nxe5 18.Qg7 Nxd3! 19.Qxh8+ Kd7 20.Qxd8 Kxd8 21.Red1 Ne2+ 22.Kh1 Bxe3 ...with the pretty 23.Nxe3?? Nf2 mat
	« Last Edit: 03/04/12 at 18:15:27 by dom »
	“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.” - Groucho Marx
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