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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) black reprtoire (Read 16580 times)
BPaulsen
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Re: black reprtoire
Reply #6 - 07/02/09 at 13:00:32
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Zatara wrote on 07/01/09 at 20:06:03:
Thanks TN and everyone else who responds for your time and patience on these matters!!!!  
I am thinking of taking up the chigorin as black for the following reasons:
1. I am well under 2000 USCF
2. Because of that it I think I should, as Markovic recommends: spend time with open positions.
3. I think the Chigorin is "better" than the Tarrasch or the Albin.
4.  The Grunfeld has a lot of theory and would have to learn something else in addition to all the theory on the Grunfled after 1.Nf3 or 1.c4.  Even though it is sharp and open...
5. Though I like the attacking prospects of KID I should study open positions

What do you think of these ideas or is my time better spent on the Semi Slav??  or should I play both??!!!

2. I am thinking between playing 1...e5 and Schliemann vs Ruy and 2 knights vs Bc4 or playing the Schevenigen Sicilian what do you think??  Or play both??!?!?!

Thanks as always,
Zatara


Firstly - whatever you pick should be sound up to the highest levels, and represent something you can play for life - go with something with an extremely high pedigree. Given your level just pick one and stick to it through thick and thin, constantly vacillating is not going to improve your play.

Against 1. d4 I think you should go with the Semi-Slav via a Slav move order (d5/c6/Nf6 then e6) if your choices are either Semi-Slav, or Chigorin.

Yes, the Semi-Slav is extremely theoretical. However, it has an unquestionable pedigree, and there's no doubt it can be a permanent weapon so you can fixate the theory you need to learn on that one opening. There will never be a need to abandon it regardless of how good you get. 

Against 1. e4 you need to either pick 1...e5, or 1...c5, not both. Given the sort of variations you mentioned you'd go with personally I'd give my support to the Schevenigen Sicilian.

Having experience in open/closed positions is a pointless distraction. All that matters is you have experience in the positions that result from the openings you play, regardless of what they are. The key is flexibility. 

Anyway, that's my opinion.
  

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FischerTal
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Re: black reprtoire
Reply #5 - 07/02/09 at 12:46:47
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Zatara wrote on 07/01/09 at 20:06:03:
Thanks TN and everyone else who responds for your time and patience on these matters!!!!  
I am thinking of taking up the chigorin as black for the following reasons:
1. I am well under 2000 USCF
2. Because of that it I think I should, as Markovic recommends: spend time with open positions.
3. I think the Chigorin is "better" than the Tarrasch or the Albin.
4.  The Grunfeld has a lot of theory and would have to learn something else in addition to all the theory on the Grunfled after 1.Nf3 or 1.c4.  Even though it is sharp and open...
5. Though I like the attacking prospects of KID I should study open positions

What do you think of these ideas or is my time better spent on the Semi Slav??  or should I play both??!!!

2. I am thinking between playing 1...e5 and Schliemann vs Ruy and 2 knights vs Bc4 or playing the Schevenigen Sicilian what do you think??  Or play both??!?!?!

Thanks as always,
Zatara


If you learn the Chigorin,   you have to learn something else vs nf3 or c4 as well?

My brief experienc with the Chig at 1900-2000 level was that the theory was Ok but it was not so good as other openings against players who were content to play it solid non-theory with white
  
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TicklyTim
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Re: black reprtoire
Reply #4 - 07/02/09 at 12:18:25
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I've helped someone out who was studying the Chigorin.
It's quite easy to learn.
The only question mark was 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 as there is 4.. dxc4 5.d5 and talk of black saccing a piece. It's supposed to be ok, but not to everyones taste. Plus it would be a line that would need to be learnt well. Ward offers an alterantive in his Unusual Queens Gambits book. (Haven't seen any repetoire books, but from memory Moro's book gives the piece sac).
The other thing to consider is whether to reply to 2.Nf3 with 2...Nc6 or to play something a bit more aggressive (this was discussed in another thread recently).
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: black reprtoire
Reply #3 - 07/02/09 at 12:10:48
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Bibs wrote on 07/02/09 at 11:08:25:
Get the Morozevich/Barsky book. Play over all the games he had in his blitz matches with karpov. Instructive use of knights.

Then off you go.

I agree completely with Bibs, and add that recommendation for anyone, even if you plan on never seeing the Chigorin fleet across your screen or board in a game.  Moro's work is really fantastic in the original sense of the word.  He conjurs up magical positions where material considerations are etheral.  It is truly a wonderful book and one of my (current) favorites.
  
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Bibs
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Re: black reprtoire
Reply #2 - 07/02/09 at 11:08:25
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Chig a solid enough defence to use. Good fun, can be quite hacky too, as white oftwn fails to remember the lines clearly. 
Get the Morozevich/Barsky book. Play over all the games he had in his blitz matches with karpov. Instructive use of knights.

Then off you go.
  
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TicklyTim
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Re: black reprtoire
Reply #1 - 07/02/09 at 09:27:05
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The lines in the Chigorin are a lot more singular. There are only a few different ways for white to go, so whatever you learn should be able to make it into your game.
In the semi-slav, there is a lot more work, and White is more likely to walk off into some line that you might not have studied.
You will see the effort put into the Chigorin come through on the board in your game, much quicker than the semi-slav.
I would learn just the one for the moment.
The semi-slav is about 4 or 5 times more effort than the chigorin, so it wouldn't really be doubling the work.

If you want open games, then the scheveningen and all the anti-sicilians you can face (c3, closed, GP) probably isn't the choice. Your other ..e5 option will give you that.
  
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Zatara
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black reprtoire
07/01/09 at 20:06:03
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Thanks TN and everyone else who responds for your time and patience on these matters!!!!   
I am thinking of taking up the chigorin as black for the following reasons:
1. I am well under 2000 USCF
2. Because of that it I think I should, as Markovic recommends: spend time with open positions.
3. I think the Chigorin is "better" than the Tarrasch or the Albin.
4.  The Grunfeld has a lot of theory and would have to learn something else in addition to all the theory on the Grunfled after 1.Nf3 or 1.c4.  Even though it is sharp and open...
5. Though I like the attacking prospects of KID I should study open positions

What do you think of these ideas or is my time better spent on the Semi Slav??  or should I play both??!!!

2. I am thinking between playing 1...e5 and Schliemann vs Ruy and 2 knights vs Bc4 or playing the Schevenigen Sicilian what do you think??  Or play both??!?!?!

Thanks as always,
Zatara
  
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