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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play? (Read 19632 times)
emary
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #13 - 08/13/09 at 12:40:45
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Hi, 

I suggest 
 
1) 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Be2 

This has been investigated by Basman a long time 
ago and he concludes it could be a good opening 
for an amateur. 

A refinement could be 
1. e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4. Be2 
 
This has been investigated in a SOS-book. 

2) 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.a3 or 
   1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4. a3 
   (Idea: after the patzer move 4. a3 4...d5 should 
   be strong, but this runs into 5. Qh5 with a reversed 
   Scotch where Black is missing the crucial b4-square. 

3) 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 with d3 to follow. 
   I know two players around 2200 playing this line 
   as their main white weapon OTB and with reasonable 
   success. 
   One of them even plays the black version 
   1.e4 c6 2.d4 d6 pretending a fingerfehler at the 
   second move.   

4) 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 
   Harding's book written in the seventies is full of unusual tries. 
   If you do your own research on some of these lines this 
   could be rewarding. If you suspect your opponent does not 
   know much theory you could transpose to more theoretical stuff 
   from time to time. 

5) 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 followed by d3 
    combined with              Nf6 4.d3 
    In the second version it is important to prevent good 
   versions of the the d5 counter. 
    (Btw: There are some bold people who play 4...d5?!  
    at once. It is risky, but you should be prepared.)  
    Have a look at some games of Bologan etc. and you will 
    see it is not so easy for Black. 
    A refined move-order is 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 preventing the 
    Petroff 2...Nf6 3.d3 Nc6 4.Nf3. The prize of this order 
    is allowing the line 3...c6 followed by 4...d5, which you 
    certainly should prepare well. 
    (Btw. I have played the Bishop's opening around 50 times 
    and I had never to play against this line.)  

Regards
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #12 - 07/28/09 at 00:59:32
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if you considerate  deviating still earlier, bishop's opening is a great choice, and was played by both Morozevuch and Leko to avoid gelfand's petroff.
  

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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #11 - 07/22/09 at 23:02:57
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JonathanB wrote on 07/22/09 at 18:04:00:
After 1. e4 e5, 2. Nf3 Nc6

an opponent once played 3. c4 against me.  Looks odd but after 3. ... Nf6 (seems natural to me), 4. Nc3 we transposed into a line in the English that - I think - turns up in Dangerous weapons: Flank Openings.

Not un-theoreotical but probably less so than the alternatives.

Still there's a difference : after 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.e4, Black would like to play ...Bc5 and ...d6 but 4...Bc5 at once allows 5.Nxe5, so Black often plays Bb4,d6,Bc5. But in the 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c4 move order, this Nxe5 trick doesn't work because of Bc5-b4+, so he can play 3...Bc5 at once (and then ...d6), saving a tempo compared to the English proper. However it is certainly irritating for Black to face 3.c4 here, like in the equally infamous 1.e4 c5 2.c4
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #10 - 07/22/09 at 18:04:00
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After 1. e4 e5, 2. Nf3 Nc6

an opponent once played 3. c4 against me.  Looks odd but after 3. ... Nf6 (seems natural to me), 4. Nc3 we transposed into a line in the English that - I think - turns up in Dangerous weapons: Flank Openings.

Not un-theoreotical but probably less so than the alternatives.
  

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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #9 - 07/22/09 at 12:21:27
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Methinks the main reason for playing Bc4 and d3 in tournaments is the Marshall Attack of the Ruy Lopez. Then if White plays Ruy Lopez style after Bc4, Black has less problems to solve since he hasn't commited his queenside pawns, yet a game remains to be played.
A word of caution against Bb5+d3/c3 : if you are spotted playing this regularly, people may drag you into a tricky Berlin Defense with ...d5, e.g. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3 Bc5 5.c3 0-0 6.Bxc6 bxc6 7.Nxe5 d5 when Black is (as always) OK. All in all it looks more practical to play Bc4 instead of Bb5, perhaps even at move 2 as was already suggested.
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #8 - 07/22/09 at 09:51:09
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I was recently quite shocked when I examined the slow Italian setup with d3 - according to all the books White gets little or nothing, but it is very popular at the GM level - the reason is that it is a safe and yet potentially quite poisonous system - well worth investigating, although understanding the Spanish would be a great help.

Other than that you could look at the games of Sveshnikov who has pioneered some novel systems.
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #7 - 07/20/09 at 20:41:09
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That knight quite (maybe even more) often goes to e3 iso g3 and that square also can be reached via c4. Another question is if White can manoeuvre the knight via f1 before castling. Critical is ...d5.
  

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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #6 - 07/20/09 at 17:29:45
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The King wrote on 07/19/09 at 14:56:02:

b)  3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3

It is a good choice if you are into positional play, though you run the risk of not getting much out of the opening when black is getting prepared (as with all lines where you avoid theory). Still Karpov dabbled with it and it is not as boring as some think. Some ideas are to go b4 and a4 and press on the q-side, or play a closed Ruy like setup with the typical knight travel Nb2-d2-f1-g3.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #5 - 07/20/09 at 15:26:19
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3 c3 ! seems not too theoretical ! Seems quite good as most black's don't know this line at all.
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #4 - 07/20/09 at 00:12:52
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Not mentioned so far is the Ponziani (3.c3), which objectively is 100% equal, but as Kritz's survey in CBM shows, it is better than its reputation and White has good chances of achieving an advantage against an unprepared Black player. 

If you are after something very aggressive but not too theoretical, then 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 combined with 3...Nf6 4.d4 would be a logical choice. There is also 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4!?, which has been quite fashionable of late.

Finally, you can play 3.Nc3 (which you can also use against the Petroff), and after 3...Nf6, choose between 4.Bb5, 4.d4, 4.g3, 4.a3, 4.Be2 and 4.Ne5. 

For a non-theoretical variation against 2...Nc6 that you can play for the rest of your career without having to worry too much about keeping up with theory, I would recommend the Four Knights, varying your 4th move depending on the opponent/tournament position/style.
  

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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #3 - 07/19/09 at 16:00:50
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thanks for the advice so far guys.  I hadn't considered the Scotch 4 knights.  I will have a look at it.  I suppose the exchange spanish is another option.
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #2 - 07/19/09 at 15:45:49
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If you choose line a) you also have to be ready for black deviations on move 3 like 3... f5 or 3... Nd4.

Vs. your second option these answers are not so good. Also if Black plays 3.Bc4 Nf6 you can choose 4.d3 followed by c3 with similar play to the Italian Game even if Black avoids Bc5.

If you like those setups with d3 & c3 for White I suggest looking at the moveorder 2.Bc4. After 2... Nc6 3.Nf3 you are back on track while 2... Nf6 3.d3 intending 4.Nf3 offers Black some independent possibilities but avoids the Petroff.

Goraths advice about the Scotch Four Knights is also quite good since once you have mastered some basic lines there is not much need to update them regularly.
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
Reply #1 - 07/19/09 at 15:08:32
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A 3rd option would be the Scotch Four Knights 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. d4 exd4 5. Nxd4. The position is quite open, white's position is perfectly healthy, he has a few active positional plans and a few tactical tricks like a piece sac on h6 with a draw in hand against best defense. If black knows his stuff he gets full equality, but you can easily exchange everything off and offer a draw. It's a low risk opening a lot of people consider boring. Very easy to play.

The other two options are strategically more complex and also theoretically 100% equal. I don't feel qualified to say more about them.
  
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1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 non theoretical way to play?
07/19/09 at 14:56:02
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Hi all,

I am looking for a reasonably easy to learn system against the above sequence.  I don't play as much now (work, 2 young kids etc).  In essence I am looking for a system I can learn without having to keep up with current theory.  After some research I came up with 2 possible systems:

a)  3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.d3
b)  3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3

Could anyone who has any experience with these systems offer any advice on their respective merits?

Most of my opponents would be between 1500 and 2000 elo.  I am 1750 elo.

Thanks
  
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