Arcticmonkey wrote on 08/04/11 at 15:09:38:

This line actually isn't very critical. 7. ... Qf6 is quite all right though sharp, but the easiest option for black is undoubtetly 7. ... Bd7(!) when black will be playing Nge7, f6, g5, Ng6 with a strong attacking position on the kings side.
The only real critical test of the Yandemirov is the main line where (unfortunately) black seems to be losing. I don't think I will be playing it with black; it's just too risky.

kylemeister wrote on 05/25/11 at 14:14:05:


So yea perhaps 14...Qe7 is a little better, at least its an alternative

kylemeister wrote on 05/25/11 at 14:14:05:


I have to admit I can't find where Taylor mentions this, can you point me to a page number?

NeverGiveUp wrote on 05/26/11 at 09:45:05:

Sorry guys, his line should read 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.d3 d6 6.c3 g6 7.0-0 Bg7 8.Nbd2 0-0 9.Re1 b5 10.Bc2 Bb7

Some of you guys might be interested in this:

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skittles405.pdf

I've been tempted by the Modern Steinitz for a while, as an 'easy' way to get Closed Lopez type positions.  I've also been looking at play 1 e4 e5 as black for a while without ever finding anything satisfactory.  I wasn't too hopeful about Taylor's effort, and I have had the chance to look at it (I haven't bought it).

I'd briefly looked at the theory before and wasn't interested in 5 0-0 Bg4 as it seemed borderline unsound and I wanted something I didn't need to memorize.  So his 5 0-0 Bd7 6 d4 Nf6 7 c3 g6 looked interesting, especially as when I was a junior my pet line in against the Ruy Lopez was 3...a6 4 Ba4 b5 5 Bb3 g6?! later replaced by 5...Nf6 6 0-0 g6?!.  Eventually I worked out the refutations of these before anyone played it against me...so I looked at this variation first.

First brief look through seemed to suggest Taylor was awfully keen on suggesting that white's best move was dxe5 at several points, when various "normal" Closed Ruy Lopez moves and strategies for white were ignored.  Not sure if this is just his promotion for black or that he just hasn't played this much for either colour.  So it didn't like I would get much from the book apart from inspiration.

In the meantime when looking at one of the positions my memory started prodding me.  This is what it saw:

1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 d6 5 0-0 Bd7 6 c3 Nf6 7 Re1 g6 8 d4 b5 9 Bb3 Bg7 10 Nbd2 0-0 11 Nf1 h6[1]12 h3 Re8 13 Ng3

and

1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 d6 8 c3 0-0 9 h3 h6 10 d4 Re8 11 Nbd2 Bf8 12 Nf1 Bd7 13 Ng3 (the main line of the Smyslov Variation).

So what do we see? Black has played g7-g6 and Bf8-g7 in the Modern Steinitz line and Bf8-e7 and Be7-f8 in the Smyslov Variation.  Otherwise it's the same.  So it would be fruitful to look at this and decide in which location the bishop is best.  Marin covered this variation in CBM 129.

If the conclusion is at least that they are roughly equivalent, 5 Bxc6+ isn't a big deal and white's deviations don't give anything then black does get an easy Closed Ruy Lopez type position.

A further note is that in the MS if black refrains from g6 and plays Be7, we can transpose directly into the Smyslov if after ...b5 white plays Bb3, but Bc2 is stronger as black's normal plan involves 13...Na5 in the above Tabiya.

[1] Taylor is actually dismissive of 11 Nf1, saying 11...exd4 12 cxd4 Bg4 and "it is hard to see how white can avoid a shattered kingside" with nothing else.  I'm curious as to how the shattered kingside will compete with the centre and the bishop pair after something like 13 Bg5 Bxf3 14 gxf3 h6 15 Be3, it's certainly not totally clear that everything is OK for black.

His main game is 11 h3 Re8 when 12 Nf1 exd4! wins a pawn unless white enters a drawing line with 13 Ng5, which does look convincing.

8. Nbd2 has been given in ECO as leading to a slight advantage for White, e.g. 8...b5 9. Bc2 Bg7 10. Nb3 O-O 11. de de 12. Nc5 Bg4 13. h3 Qe7 (Kaplan-Keres, San Antonio 1972) 14. hg Qxc5 15. g5 += Keres.

Edit:  I see that Taylor does mention this, recommending 11...Nxe5; "after 12. Nxe5 de 13. Nc5 Bc6 14. Be3 Nd7 White has absolutely nothing."  Looks a bit optimistic to me.

kylemeister wrote on 05/23/11 at 21:08:07:


If the d5 line would be a serious problem for black in the Rubinstein (I am investigating) then black has a very serious alternative in 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 d6 5.0-0(!) Bd7 6.d4 Nf6 7.c3 g6 8.Re1 b5 9.Bb3 Bg7 what is Taylor's recommendation against 5.0-0. This line has been played by Keres himself several times and is very solid. What do you guys think - is this line equalising for black? If not, then why not? It may well be critical for the verdict of the whole MS.