ChessPub Forum - Lowenthal variation of Sicilian

Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #19 - 11/11/11 at 20:34:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	PANFR wrote on 11/11/11 at 17:51:49: Stefan Buecker wrote on 11/11/11 at 13:10:59: I wrote about the Löwenthal Variation. 8.Qd1 is relatively harmless imo. 16...Nf6 17.Bg5 Rd8 18.Qc1 Bf5 19.b4 Qd4 20.g4 Bd3 =, e.g. 21.Bxd3 Qxd3+ 22.Kf2 Nxa1 23.Qxa1 e4!. Ah, thanks. I was not aware of this analysis. Has it been at Kaissiber, or here? I could not spot something. 16...Nf6 certainly looks like an improvement for black, since 19.g4 (instead of 19.b4) Bd3 20.Bxd3 Rxd3 21.Kg2 h6 looks about equal, too. It was a short, superficial article: www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss22.pdf which included a flawed analysis of 8.Qc7 (more on the latter in www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss29.pdf ). The Löwenthal may be slightly better for White, but imo 8.Qd1 is less critical than 8.Qc7. After 8.Qd1 ... Qe4+, I didn't mention 11.Be2. By the way, after 11...Nd4 12.Nc7+ Ke7 you also mention 13.Kf1. It seems that Black has a pretty reply: 13...Nxe2 14.Nxa8 Bh3!! 15.gxh3 Nf6 16.Nb6 Rd8 17.Qe1 Qxh1+ 18.Kxe2 Qe4+ 19.Be3 Nh5 20.Qg1 Nf4+ 21.Kf1 Kf8! =.


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PANFR Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 256 Location: Greece Joined: 10/31/11 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #18 - 11/11/11 at 17:51:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stefan Buecker wrote on 11/11/11 at 13:10:59: I wrote about the Löwenthal Variation. 8.Qd1 is relatively harmless imo. 16...Nf6 17.Bg5 Rd8 18.Qc1 Bf5 19.b4 Qd4 20.g4 Bd3 =, e.g. 21.Bxd3 Qxd3+ 22.Kf2 Nxa1 23.Qxa1 e4!. Ah, thanks. I was not aware of this analysis. Has it been at Kaissiber, or here? I could not spot something. 16...Nf6 certainly looks like an improvement for black, since 19.g4 (instead of 19.b4) Bd3 20.Bxd3 Rxd3 21.Kg2 h6 looks about equal, too.


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #17 - 11/11/11 at 13:10:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	PANFR wrote on 11/11/11 at 10:02:33: IMO in the main line with 8.Qd1 Qg6 9.Nc3 d5 10.Nxd5 Qxe4+ Black is almost busted after 11.Be2! Nd4 12.Nc7+ Ke7 13.f3 (13.Kf1 is also interesting) Nxc2+ (or 13...Qc6 14.Nxa8 Nxc2+ etc) 14.Kf2 Qc6 15.Nxa8 Qc5+ 16.Kf1 Nxa1 17.b4! Now "Dangerous Weapons" gives 17...Qc2! 18.Nb6 Nf6 19.Be3 Qxd1 20.Bxd1 Nd7!? 21.Ba4 when black is OK after 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7 or 22...Bf5. But after 21.Ke2! Black is in deep trouble with the stranded knight at a1. I could not find anything convincing for black: 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bf5 23.Kd2! Rc8 24.g4 Bd7 25.Bc5+, or 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7!? 23.Kd2 (23.f4 also looks very good for white) Rc8 24.Bc5+ Ke6 (24...Kf6 25.f4!) 25.Be2 and black is almost lost. Black may have to play 17...Qc6, although 18.Bd3 Nf6 19.Be3 also looks better for white. So, the only variation for black is Vallejo's preferred one, 9...Nge7 10.h4 h5 11.Bg5 d5 12.ed5 Nd4! 13.Bd3 Bf5 14.Bxf5 Ndxf5! as in Efimenko- Pons, where Black has very interesting positional compensation for the sacrificed pawn. I wrote about the Löwenthal Variation. 8.Qd1 is relatively harmless imo. 16...Nf6 17.Bg5 Rd8 18.Qc1 Bf5 19.b4 Qd4 20.g4 Bd3 =, e.g. 21.Bxd3 Qxd3+ 22.Kf2 Nxa1 23.Qxa1 e4!.


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PANFR Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 256 Location: Greece Joined: 10/31/11 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #16 - 11/11/11 at 10:02:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	IMO in the main line with 8.Qd1 Qg6 9.Nc3 d5 10.Nxd5 Qxe4+ Black is almost busted after 11.Be2! Nd4 12.Nc7+ Ke7 13.f3 (13.Kf1 is also interesting) Nxc2+ (or 13...Qc6 14.Nxa8 Nxc2+ etc) 14.Kf2 Qc6 15.Nxa8 Qc5+ 16.Kf1 Nxa1 17.b4! Now "Dangerous Weapons" gives 17...Qc2! 18.Nb6 Nf6 19.Be3 Qxd1 20.Bxd1 Nd7!? 21.Ba4 when black is OK after 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7 or 22...Bf5. But after 21.Ke2! Black is in deep trouble with the stranded knight at a1. I could not find anything convincing for black: 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bf5 23.Kd2! Rc8 24.g4 Bd7 25.Bc5+, or 21...Nxb6 22.Bxb6 Bd7!? 23.Kd2 (23.f4 also looks very good for white) Rc8 24.Bc5+ Ke6 (24...Kf6 25.f4!) 25.Be2 and black is almost lost. Black may have to play 17...Qc6, although 18.Bd3 Nf6 19.Be3 also looks better for white. So, the only variation for black is Vallejo's preferred one, 9...Nge7 10.h4 h5 11.Bg5 d5 12.ed5 Nd4! 13.Bd3 Bf5 14.Bxf5 Ndxf5! as in Efimenko- Pons, where Black has very interesting positional compensation for the sacrificed pawn.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #15 - 11/06/11 at 02:29:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Blunderer wrote on 11/05/11 at 20:16:11: Thanks chaps - clearly i need to spend a bit more time looking at it, as you seem to have a much more negative view of the position than i do. I think you could do well enough at the club level, just playing right into the teeth of that ending and knowing it better than your opponent. There are other dangerous lines, of course, but the same goes for them.

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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #14 - 11/06/11 at 00:36:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	Expanding on Glenn Snow's post, an interesting sideline that may appeal to Lowenthal players is 3...e5 4.Bc4 h6 followed by ...g6, ...d6, ...Bg7, ...Nge7 and ...0-0, playing a Botvinnik setup. It's a bit better for White, of course, but the ideas for Black are very simple and recurring, like in the Lowenthal.

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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #13 - 11/06/11 at 00:32:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	If you do decide to go ahead with Lowenthal you will also have to be prepared to face 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 when White has the option of playing d4 unless Black plays 3...d5.


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Blunderer Junior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 66 Joined: 06/10/08	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #12 - 11/05/11 at 20:16:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks chaps - clearly i need to spend a bit more time looking at it, as you seem to have a much more negative view of the position than i do.


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #11 - 11/05/11 at 18:29:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	That's what I had in mind and yes, I would much rather be White.

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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #10 - 11/05/11 at 12:48:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	In my opinion (after looking at the position for two seconds) only White has winning chances in the diagram position. That Black won is due to the difference in rating rather than the evaluation of the position.

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Blunderer

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Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian
Reply #9 - 11/05/11 at 10:07:25

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Download game in pgn format

I guess this is the line you were referrring to, with the diagram being a critical position after move 20.

I'm not quite sure how this positin should be assessed, clearly the 2 bishops and the potential passers on the queenside look quite attractive.

That said, I'm not convinced that White will keep the two bishops, Black's knights have got some nice squares, and the black rooks will become quite active.

The computer seems to take the view that its equal.

« Last Edit: 11/05/11 at 11:47:14 by GMTonyKosten »

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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #8 - 11/05/11 at 05:20:37	Post Tools	Print Post
	I would much rather be White in the critical ending that arises after 8.Qd1, which I believe to be the best move.

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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #7 - 11/05/11 at 01:28:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Blunderer wrote on 11/04/11 at 23:34:44: you know I'm not saying Black simply equalises But most sources seem to indicate a clear advantage. Clearly computer assessments need to be taken with a pince of salt, but Houdini seems to be getting pretty close to equality in the Qf6 and Qd1 lines i have looked at Of course. I know Tony Rotella's book 'The Killer Sicilian' is due to be published, but I don't remember if he covers 5...a6 as well as 5...d6. You are right that most books tend to not take the Lowenthal seriously, which you can take advantage of to score a lot of points in practice. On second thoughts, 8.Qd1 is probably stronger than 8.Qc7.

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Blunderer Junior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 66 Joined: 06/10/08	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #6 - 11/04/11 at 23:34:44	Post Tools	Print Post
	you know I'm not saying Black simply equalises But most sources seem to indicate a clear advantage. Clearly computer assessments need to be taken with a pince of salt, but Houdini seems to be getting pretty close to equality in the Qf6 and Qd1 lines i have looked at


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Lowenthal variation of Sicilian Reply #5 - 11/04/11 at 23:12:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	Blunderer wrote on 11/04/11 at 21:52:02: I've finally decided to give the Sicilian a try after concluding i've had enough of the french (the opening not the people). I kind of suspect that I'm more likely to face the anti sicilians rather than the main lines so am looking for an easy short term system based on an early Nc6. I've spent a couple of hours looking at the Lowenthal now, using the Dangerous Weapons and Houdini - and it seems to me that this system is seriously under-rated. I'm not saying that Black equalises in all lines, but I'm struggling to find many lines where Black has much in the way on problems. If anyone could point to any specific lines where they thing Black is up against it, could they please point me in the right direction Thanks in advance 8.Qf6 and 8.Qc7 are the critical lines, both += in my opinion. But if you are able to prove equality then you could be on to a long-term answer to the Open Sicilian.

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