Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Bishop's opening (Read 7883 times)
Schaakhamster
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #11 - 08/17/09 at 10:14:26
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ArKheiN wrote on 08/15/09 at 13:31:50:
2.Bc4 is nice. You may not get an opening advantage against accurate play, that's true. But that's true with the Ruy Lopez too. I think it's mostly a question of fashion. Maybe 90% of the best players plays the Ruy Lopez today, but in the past, they played Italian and King's Gambit. I would not be surprised if in the future, 2.Bc4 or 2.Nf3 and 3.Bc4 will be more popular again at the top. After 2.Bc4, you will mostly face 2..Nf6 where 3.d4!?, the Urusov gambit will mostly transpose into a Two Knight defense "modern line", which may be equal but clearly not "dead draw", with chances to fight for a win. The calm idea of 3.d3 and 4.c3 may not give fears but that's still possible to outplay your opponent calmly, and I find that the resultings positions are close to many Ruy Lopez lines. 3.Nc3 entering into the hybrid Vienna/Bishop opening is equal too. You can often reach King's Gambit declined too, which is between = and +/=.

My conclusion: 2.Bc4 is a good move, not sufficient to get an advantage by force, but that's the case with the Ruy Lopez too.  At amateur play you might even reach advantageous positions just in the opening because the positions may be less known for your opponent. 2.Bc4 may suit every type of play, after that move you can still choose your own way. At GM play, it's maybe more hard to play for a win compared to the Ruy Lopez because Black is supposed to equalize "easily" but here too I am not sure that the opening is more promising even at that level compared to the Ruy Lopez.


I think the Ruy Lopez is a bit better but this is offset by a) 2. Bc4 dodges the Philidor and more importantly the Petroff  b) a lot less theory and c) has some surprise value which basicly makes it very suited for us lowely-rated amateurs. 

  
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Fllg
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #10 - 08/16/09 at 09:44:08
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No, it isn´t. In general I don´t think White has any chance of a theoretical advantage if he sacrifices both his central pawns.

Also you must have knowledge about the Two Knights since Black will often transpose into this after 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nf3 Nc6.

  
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Zatara
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #9 - 08/16/09 at 04:33:43
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Hi all,
Is the Urusov Gambit a better bet then King's Gambit or Evan's Gambit?
thanks,
Zatara
  
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Fllg
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #8 - 08/15/09 at 22:39:37
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Offering a transposition to a Bishop´s Gambit is certainly possible:

A) 3.f4 exf4 4.d4 (4.Nf3 h6! 5.d4 g5 leads to the Hanstein-Gambit)
    Nf6 (Qh4+!?) 5.Nc3 Be7 6.Bxf4 0-0 7.Nf3 looks good for White but
    Black may be able to play Nxe4 now.

Denying Black this possibility with 

B) 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d3 Be7 5.f4 is a calmer way to push the f-pawn with
    Black playing a passive declined KG.

A third idea is

C) 3.Nf3 Nf6 which can also be followed up a la an Italian Game with
    4.d3 Be7 5.c3 which resembles a closed Rup Lopez.

My preference is B) which should be good enough for a small advantage.
 
  
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Anders
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #7 - 08/15/09 at 21:05:07
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TN wrote on 08/15/09 at 12:33:05:


....
I suggest the following reasons:

One advantage is that White avoids a large portion of theory, especially on the Phillidor and Petroff (if White intends to transpose in some lines with a later Nf3).
...


Hi.  

Assuming Black is a Philidor player, what should White play against 2...d6 (hoping for 3.Nf3)?

3.f4?


Thanks / Anders  

Ps.
The line 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 h6 seem OK for black.

  
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kylemeister
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #6 - 08/15/09 at 16:50:23
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Several books have "thought" that 2...Nf6 3. d3 c6 4. Nf3 d5 should lead to an edge for White, and that 4...Be7 is better, but I get the impression that that probably isn't a widely-held view now.
  
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #5 - 08/15/09 at 16:32:10
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I wouldn't say that Bishop opening is totally harmless. I played it just once, as Black against GM. During preparation I was confident that the "main" line after 2...Nf6 3.d3 c6 4.Nf3 d5 is just equal and it was indeed close to that, but still White maintained an unpleasant small pull throughout the game thanks to his two bishops. In the end, I managed to draw the game, but realized that it is not so clear-cut as I thought...
  
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #4 - 08/15/09 at 15:48:11
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In my view the Bishop´s Opening is indeed very reliable. I played it as one of my main weapons in the last 10-15 years vs. opposition up to 2300 Elo with quite a good score. Of course one can not expect a theoretical advantage.

It´s a great transpositional tool, so it´s nice to have a good understanding of a wider range of the open games like the Italian or KG declined.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #3 - 08/15/09 at 14:30:52
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The Bishop's Opening (especially the old-fashioned gambits arising from lines like 2...Nf6 3.d4 and 2...Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 or 4.0-0 or 4.d4) are less positionally sophisticated than the Lopez.  I'm not convinced that the Lopez is objectively any better with best play, but the consensus view is that at GM level the ways for Black to fully equalise are much harder to find.  This "positional sophistication" issue is, I believe, also the main reason why most coaches don't recommend the Lopez main lines to beginners as their positional knowledge tends to be thin on the ground and their tactical knowledge in need of development (the latter being more effectively enhanced by a grounding in the classic open games).

As others have mentioned, though, there are a fair number of GMs who endorse the Bishop's Opening and even play it themselves sometimes.  
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #2 - 08/15/09 at 13:31:50
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2.Bc4 is nice. You may not get an opening advantage against accurate play, that's true. But that's true with the Ruy Lopez too. I think it's mostly a question of fashion. Maybe 90% of the best players plays the Ruy Lopez today, but in the past, they played Italian and King's Gambit. I would not be surprised if in the future, 2.Bc4 or 2.Nf3 and 3.Bc4 will be more popular again at the top. After 2.Bc4, you will mostly face 2..Nf6 where 3.d4!?, the Urusov gambit will mostly transpose into a Two Knight defense "modern line", which may be equal but clearly not "dead draw", with chances to fight for a win. The calm idea of 3.d3 and 4.c3 may not give fears but that's still possible to outplay your opponent calmly, and I find that the resultings positions are close to many Ruy Lopez lines. 3.Nc3 entering into the hybrid Vienna/Bishop opening is equal too. You can often reach King's Gambit declined too, which is between = and +/=.

My conclusion: 2.Bc4 is a good move, not sufficient to get an advantage by force, but that's the case with the Ruy Lopez too.  At amateur play you might even reach advantageous positions just in the opening because the positions may be less known for your opponent. 2.Bc4 may suit every type of play, after that move you can still choose your own way. At GM play, it's maybe more hard to play for a win compared to the Ruy Lopez because Black is supposed to equalize "easily" but here too I am not sure that the opening is more promising even at that level compared to the Ruy Lopez.
  
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TN
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Re: Bishop's opening
Reply #1 - 08/15/09 at 12:33:05
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I suggest the following reasons:

a) Objectively speaking, it is completely equal after 2...Nf6 3.d3 c6 4.Nf3 d5 5.Bb3 Bd6, and 3.d4 also fails to impress. Morozevich did beat Gelfand recently in Biel this year with 6.ed5, but this was not a result of the opening.
b) Even when White transposes to 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4, White does not achieve an advantage, e.g. 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Bc5 5.c3 a6 with equality, as Tiviakov stated in Yearbook 91.
c) White's alternatives to such transposition to the 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 variation are objectively innocuous.

Having said this, the Bishop's Opening does not seem unpopular at the moment, since as far as I know, Morozevich, Movsesian and Tiviakov are all playing it on a frequent basis, and not without success. One advantage is that White avoids a large portion of theory, especially on the Phillidor and Petroff (if White intends to transpose in some lines with a later Nf3).
  

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jitb
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Bishop's opening
08/15/09 at 12:06:19
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Hi everybody,

I was wondering what could be the reason for the low popularity of the bishop's opening (1.e4 e5 2. Bc4)?  Huh It seems to me that it can be a quite effective transpositional weapon.

Thanks Smiley
  
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