SWJediknight wrote on 09/21/09 at 22:01:27:
Stefan Bucker came up with some ideas against 4/5...c6 here:
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss42.pdf The Danish does seem to give White full compensation if White recaptures with the knight (1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3) for if Black goes 4...Bb4, then White can continue with Nge2 instead of transposing to the Goring with Nf3. Or if 4...Nc6 then 5.Bc4, and if 5...Bb4 6.Nge2, or 5...Nf6 6.Nf3 and White has side-stepped the Goring main line.
White has a few relatively unexplored lines in the one and two-pawn variants of the Goring, which I believe may be better than the standard ones, though they might still not give full compensation: 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 Bb4 6.Bg5, 6.Bc4 d6 (6...Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 d6 8.Ng5) 7.Ng5, and 5.Bc4 cxb2 6.Bxb2 Bb4+ 7.Nc3 Nf6 8.0-0.
However, I, too, personally have my doubts about White objectively achieving full compensation in all lines of the BDG. As well as an early ...c6, there's 5...g6, 5...Bf5 (discussed on a previous thread) and 5...Bg4- though I think White gets full comp after 5...e6.
You can't be serious, SWJedi! I have played against 4...c6, 5...g6, 5...Bg4, 5...Bf5 and 5...e6 for many years. I have a good positive score against all these lines.
It sounds like you are talking about the case where Black knows how to play the defense; however, in most cases, this is not so. You think that in over-the-board tournament games Black is going to know the latest BDG theory? Not really! More to the point, the Black player will be very surprised to see a BDG!
The lines with 5...g6, the Bogoljubow Defense, have a weakness: Bg7!
Exchange the little bastard with a timely Bh6, and Black's position is in trouble!
1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 g6 6 Bc4 Bg7 7 00 00 8 h3! c6 9 Qe1 Nbd7 10 Qh4 Nb6 11 Bb3 Nbd5 12 Bd5 cxd5 13 Bh6! Bf5 14 Ng5!
is one possible line. Notice how the h3-pawn guards the key g4-square?
The lines with 5...Bg4, the Teichmann Defense simply give White a big edge in development and an attack. For instance:
5...Bg4 6 h3 Bh5 7 g4 Bg6 8 Qf3 c6 9 g5 Nfd5 10 Nxg6 hxg6 11 00 gives White a strong attack and a lead in development. Also possible is 11 Rf1
5...Bg4 6 h3 Bxf3 7 Qxf3 c6 and now:
8 Qf2, the Cieselski Variation
8 Be3, the Classical Variation
8 g4!, the Seidell-Hall Attack
In these lines, White has the 2 Bishops and open files, similar to the King's Gambit Accepted.
Now, I agree with you that the Euwe Defense, 5...e6, is extremely passive. White gets an edge there, since the Bc8 is shut out.
Regarding the pesky 4...c6 / 5...c6 lines, I suggest you read David Flude's earlier post here. He states that antidotes have been found.
Keep in touch.