ChessPub Forum - Tal Memorial 2009

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Poll

Question: Who will win the Tal Memorial 2009?


* This poll has now closed *
Vishy Anand 4 (10.8%) Lev Aronian 3 (8.1%) Magnus Carlsen 9 (24.3%) Boris Gelfand 0 (0.0%) Vasily Ivanchuk 1 (2.7%) Vladimir Kramnik 18 (48.6%) Petr Leko 0 (0.0%) Alex Morozevich 1 (2.7%) Ruslan Ponomariov 1 (2.7%) Peter Svidler 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 37 « Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 11/10/09 at 04:16:33 »

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Tal Memorial 2009 (Read 27668 times)

Antillian God Member Offline Brilliance without dazzle! Posts: 1757 Joined: 01/05/03 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #49 - 11/20/09 at 12:02:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	I just don't think you can compare tournaments or players from different generations anymore than you can compare the 1936 olympics with the 2008 olympics or compare Jesse Owens with Usain Bolt. Jesse Owens would have been the best in his day, but training and knowledge have improved - he did not have the benefit of such training or knowledge in his day. Similarly today's players are far stronger, which is a factor people often ignore when they talk about "rating inflation". It is not just opening knowledge, it is middle-game as well. Quite a few former world champions and leading players of yesterday would finish with a minus score in many of today's super-tournaments.

	"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #48 - 11/20/09 at 05:30:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smyslov_Fan wrote on 11/20/09 at 05:30:00: Considering that 10 of the top 13 players in the world faced each other, it certainly is a strong contender. But its format and lack of importance in determining a world champion hurts it. It was only a single round robin and the winner does not get an automatic bid to play the world champion. I think it's certainly stronger than NY 1924 and so yes, it should be considered in the short list of great tnmts. It may even make the top ten in Sonas' lists.


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Uruk Senior Member Offline Posts: 351 Joined: 02/03/09	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #47 - 11/20/09 at 02:26:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	For now I can say Kramnik does not suffer from false modesty.


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GabrielGale Senior Member Offline Who was Thursday? Posts: 471 Location: Sydney Joined: 02/28/08 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #46 - 11/20/09 at 01:18:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	I thought to add new life to the discussion about this tournament by mentioning Kramnik's comments in interviews since winning the tournament: Quote: Without doubt, the Tal Memorial will be the strongest tournament in the FIDE calendar for the current year. Indeed, it is probably one of the strongest ten tournaments in all of chess history. http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5917 Quote: Vladimir Kramnik: "Soon people will consider this year's Tal Memorial as one of the strongest tournaments in the history of chess, like AVRO-tournament and Zurich 1953". http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5924 Quote: I think this was not only the strongest tournament of this year, but also one of the strongest ever. http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5926 So do you consider Tal Memorial 2009 as one of the strongest in 2009; in the history of chess since 1900 (arbitary figure plucked out of the blue); as strong as AVRO and Zurich 1953? Perhaps someone can start a poll (haven't learned how to do it yet).

	http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/ A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #45 - 11/16/09 at 11:36:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well done to the kid! World number 1, and what age is he now? Great stuff, he was clearly out of sorts but still didnt lose a game, finishing up only a half point behind the winner despite not being in top shape is impressive in itself, but grabbing World number 1 spot should be the main talking point of the tournament despite Kramniks return to form.


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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #44 - 11/14/09 at 23:45:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	Conspiracy theories aside, Moro quietly joined Leko at the bottom of the table at -3. Both players are probably embarrased and angered by their poor performance, but Leko is probably more worried. Leko has now had two bad tnmts in a row (including his Chinese Spring fall). It may be a bit early, but his legendary iron defensive skills really let him down, especially against Carlsen in that last game. Kramnik won the tournament spectacularly, and perhaps could have beaten Ivanchuk when you factor in the impending time scramble in that last game. I don't think he'll mind too much that the chatter will all be about Carlsen. Anand was disappointingly unrecognizable in the last round. Aronian may be his nemesis, but he doesn't need to make it easy for Aronian. Aronian had one of the most interesting tournaments in the field, and he's my pick of the not-Kramnik-Anand-Topalov bunch to be the next contestant for world title. Carlsen showed tremendous maturity in playing safely when ill and confidently as he felt better. But I still just don't see him becoming world champion before his 25th birthday. Or, about 2 full cycles from now.


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OstapBender God Member Offline There is no spoon. Posts: 1491 Location: not in Kansas anymore Joined: 10/16/04	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #43 - 11/14/09 at 19:08:35	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smelling a conspiracy, a great skill of his, Danailov will accuse Leko of throwing the game.

	"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates." -Jay Leno
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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #42 - 11/14/09 at 18:41:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	Carlsen #1, great! I wonder if that gentle diplomat Danailov has any comment on this state of affairs... As much as I cheered for Carlsen in this game, I must say the way Leko played was pathetic. With the white pieces, no willingness to take risks in the middlegame, and then completely missing Black's plan in the ending (supposedly Leko's strongest phase) until it was too late.

	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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OstapBender God Member Offline There is no spoon. Posts: 1491 Location: not in Kansas anymore Joined: 10/16/04	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #41 - 11/14/09 at 18:33:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yes. Carlsen beat Leko, and grabbed the #1 spot on the rating list!

	"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates." -Jay Leno
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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #40 - 11/14/09 at 15:59:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	According to Norwegian news, Magnus will overtake Topalov on the rating list if he beats Leko today. It's the last game still undecided at the moment and MC is two pawns up in a R+B vs R+B+2p ending. Not a bad result from an "unimpressive" tournament! http://tal.russiachess.org/online/index.htm


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ANDREW BRETT God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 622 Joined: 07/07/06	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #39 - 11/13/09 at 08:51:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	Last tournament Kramnik's petroff was slightly sharper with Bd6 - he had a nice win and complex draw v Jakovenko.....


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Antillian God Member Offline Brilliance without dazzle! Posts: 1757 Joined: 01/05/03 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #38 - 11/12/09 at 12:20:35	Post Tools	Print Post
	Okay, I was wrong. Kramnik chose not to go into a QGD today, instead opting for Vienna. So perhaps there is a deliberate strategy on his part to play sharper chess. I really do wonder what he has planned against 1. e4. then

	"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #37 - 11/12/09 at 05:12:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 11/12/09 at 01:19:24: Antillian wrote on 11/11/09 at 22:04:06: I think some who dismiss Kramnik as a dull player suddenly think they are seeing a different person. They just have never looked closely enough at him I fully agree. In the past Kramnik has played some fascinating sharp games as well. for the most part when he was much younger though.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #36 - 11/12/09 at 01:19:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	Antillian wrote on 11/11/09 at 22:04:06: I think some who dismiss Kramnik as a dull player suddenly think they are seeing a different person. They just have never looked closely enough at him I fully agree. In the past Kramnik has played some fascinating sharp games as well.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Antillian God Member Offline Brilliance without dazzle! Posts: 1757 Joined: 01/05/03 Gender:	Re: Tal Memorial 2009 Reply #35 - 11/11/09 at 22:04:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	I am not convinced that we are seeing a different Kramnik. Time will tell. Kramnik has always been a "maximalist" with the White pieces, even if that means playing sharply when the position warrants it. I maintain that the the opening choices of Kramnik's opponents matters here. And of course, he is in good form too! Kramnik's win as Black was in a Nimzo-Indian, which Kramnik often plays, and which gives Kramnik's good chances to win in a way that is comfortable to him. There have been no 1. e4's against Kramnik - hence no Petroff's. And none of the 1.d4 players have played 3. Nf3 ....4. Nc3 in which case I am certain we would have had a duller QGD. I think some who dismiss Kramnik as a dull player suddenly think they are seeing a different person. They just have never looked closely enough at him
	« Last Edit: 11/12/09 at 01:25:12 by Antillian »
	"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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