ChessPub Forum - C03,C05: The Leningrad System

Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #13 - 11/30/09 at 09:52:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	Fllg wrote on 11/27/09 at 22:31:37: After further 10...Be7 11.Nc3 Bd7 two GMs have tried 12.Qd2!? to get the queen to the kingside via f4. What do you think about this idea? Yes I noticed Korneev played that way - its interesting - play Qd2-f4-g4. It must be one of the more dangerous set-ups against the Leningrad, but somehow I think Black should be able to drum up sufficient counterplay on the Q-side. Its another critical line in the murky world of the Leningrad.


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #12 - 11/27/09 at 23:04:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	TN wrote on 11/27/09 at 11:12:28: Instead of 8...Nb6, what about playing for an improved Lenningrad system with 7...cd4 8.cd4 a5!? (in the original move order, not 3...Be7)? The plan is to play ...a4, followed by ...Nb4 or ...Nb6 and ...Na5. Black aims to achieve a light square bind, at the cost of some tempi. Perhaps White can keep the advantage with 9.Bd3 a4 10.Ne2 Nb4 11.Bb1, but this line needs further tests before any definitive conclusions can be drawn. Silly me - I was referring to a variation different to that here: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.Ndf3 cd4 8.cd4 a5. Obviously playing Bd3 and Ngf3 instead of f4 and Ndf3 completely changes the position.

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Fllg

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Re: The Leningrad System
Reply #11 - 11/27/09 at 22:31:37

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Redeploying the knight with 10.Nb1 looks natural and is certainly better than the very slow Nd2-f1-g3-e2-c3 tour from Sutovsky-Short.

After further 10...Be7 11.Nc3 Bd7 two GMs have tried 12.Qd2!? to get the queen to the kingside via f4. What do you think about this idea?

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10779 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #10 - 11/27/09 at 20:47:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	Keano wrote on 11/27/09 at 10:28:45: personally I would always go 8...a5 first instead of 8...Nb6, not giving White a chance to reach this setup - this order is becoming more frequent in the standard Leningrad with the White Knight on e2 also. That solves the problem nicely, thanks. So we get 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.c3 c5 6.Ngf3 Nc6 7.Bd3 a5 8.0-0 cxd4 9.cxd4 Nb6 10.Nb1 and 11.Nc3 transposing to a regular Leningrad as this position also can arise after 6.Bd3 Nc6 7.Ne2. It is funny to compare this with 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.cxd4 d6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Bc4 Nb6 8.Bd3 (not a regular move) e6 9.0-0 d5 10.Nc3 Be7. In the Leningrad Black has gained the moves a7-a5-a4 for free. That should help him is my first thought.

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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #9 - 11/27/09 at 17:07:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	There may be hope yet for the Leningrad - a recent game this year from Spanish GM Narciso Dublan, a creative player with quite a wide opening repertoire: [Event "XVII Open"] [Site "Montcada i Reixac ESP"] [Date "2009.??.??"] [White "Vidarte Morales,A"] [Black "Narciso Dublan,M"] [Round "3"] [Result "0-1"] [WhiteElo "2428"] [BlackElo "2534"] [ECO "C05"] 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Bd3 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Ne2 a5 8. O-O cxd4 9. cxd4 a4 10. a3 Nb6 11. Nb1 Na5 12. Nbc3 Bd7 13. Bc2 Nac4 14. Nf4 g6 15. g3 Bg7 16. Nd3 f6 17. f4 O-O 18. Nc5 fxe5 19. dxe5 Rf7 20. Nxd7 Qxd7 21. Bd3 Bf8 22. h4 Qc6 23. Kh2 Nd7 24. h5 gxh5 25. Be2 h4 26. gxh4 Nc5 27. Bf3 Rd8 28. Ne2 Nb3 29. Nd4 Qb6 30. Nxb3 axb3 31. Qd3 Bh6 32. Bh5 Rg7 33. Bd1 Rf8 34. Qxb3 Qd4 35. Qh3 Kh8 36. Qf3 Nd2 37. Bxd2 Qxd2+ 38. Be2 Rxf4 39. Qh5 Qxe2+ 0-1


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #8 - 11/27/09 at 11:12:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Instead of 8...Nb6, what about playing for an improved Lenningrad system with 7...cd4 8.cd4 a5!? (in the original move order, not 3...Be7)? The plan is to play ...a4, followed by ...Nb4 or ...Nb6 and ...Na5. Black aims to achieve a light square bind, at the cost of some tempi. Perhaps White can keep the advantage with 9.Bd3 a4 10.Ne2 Nb4 11.Bb1, but this line needs further tests before any definitive conclusions can be drawn.

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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #7 - 11/27/09 at 10:28:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	Nunn-Hecht is a classic alright with that Rc5 move - Rybka thinks Black is better after the positional exchange sac, but I´d take White every time there - in fact probably Black should not even take the rook!. In any case the setup with a3 and b3 is optimal for White, which is why personally I would always go 8...a5 first instead of 8...Nb6, not giving White a chance to reach this setup - this order is becoming more frequent in the standard Leningrad with the White Knight on e2 also. Here is an ideal example of Blacks strategy in action - it comes about from a 3...Be7 Tarrasch but could just have easily come from the universal move order - Short pushed Sutovsky all the way, playing for a win with the Black pieces, I happened to see this game first-hand so it made a bit of an impression on me: [Event "Monarch Assuarance Open"] [Site "Port Erin HUN"] [Date "1999.??.??"] [White "Sutovsky,E"] [Black "Short,N"] [Round "4"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [WhiteElo "2587"] [BlackElo "2675"] [ECO "C03"] 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Be7 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. e5 Nfd7 6. Bd3 c5 7. c3 Nc6 8. O-O a5 9. Re1 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nb6 11. Nf1 Bd7 12. Ng3 h5 13. Ne2 g5 14. Nc3 g4 15. Nd2 Nxd4 16. Nb3 Nxb3 17. axb3 Bc6 18. Nb5 Nd7 19. Bf4 Bxb5 20. Bxb5 Kf8 21. Rc1 Nc5 22. Be3 d4 23. Bxd4 Nxb3 24. Qxb3 Qxd4 25. Rc7 Rd8 26. Rxb7 Bc5 27. Kh1 h4 28. h3 Rh5 29. hxg4 Rxe5 30. Rxe5 Qxe5 31. Qf3 Qe1+ 32. Kh2 Bd6+ 33. g3 hxg3+ 34. fxg3 Be7 35. Bf1 Qd2+ 36. Be2 Qc2 37. Rb5 Rd2 38. Re5 Kg7 39. b3 Bf6 40. Re4 Qc3 41. Qxc3 Bxc3 42. Kh3 Bb4 43. Bc4 Rc2 44. g5 Rc3 45. Rd4 Re3 46. Rd7 Be1 47. Kg4 Rxg3+ 48. Kf4 Kg6 49. Bd3+ f5 50. gxf6+ Kxf6 51. Bc4 Rg1 52. Rh7 Bd2+ 53. Ke4 Re1+ 54. Kd3 Bb4 55. Rh6+ Kf5 56. Rh5+ Kg4 57. Rh2 Kf3 58. Rh3+ Kf4 59. Rh4+ Kf5 60. Rh5+ Kf6 61. Rh6+ Ke7 62. Rh7+ Kd6 63. Rh6 Bc5 64. Rg6 Ke7 65. Rh6 e5 66. Bd5 Kd7 67. Ra6 Bb4 68. Be6+ Ke7 69. Bd5 Kd7 70. Be6+ Kc7 71. Bd5 Rd1+ 72. Ke4 Bd6 73. Rxa5 Rd4+ 74. Kf5 Kb6 75. b4 Bxb4 76. Kxe5 Kxa5 77. Kxd4 1/2-1/2


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10779 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #6 - 11/27/09 at 03:16:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Keano wrote on 11/26/09 at 14:08:24: My own opinion is that against the universal the Leningrad is a good option (the White Knights are not well co-ordinated), I find Tal-Hecht, Nice 1974, Nunn-Hecht, Luzern 1977 and Forster-Temirbaev Luzern 1997 quite worrying. Black's pieces don't seem to coordinate that well either.
	« Last Edit: 11/27/09 at 20:30:10 by MNb »
	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #5 - 11/26/09 at 18:26:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	An interesting idea in the spirit of the "universal" is to gambit a pawn after 8...Nb6 9.0-0 Bd7 10.Nb3 Be7 11.Nc5!? Nxd4 12.Nxb7 Nxf3+ 13.Qxf3 Qc7 14.Nd6+ Bxd6 15.exd6 Qxd6 16.Bf4 Qe7 17.Qg3 with very good compensation in the game Rotstein-Hirsch, Austria 1995.


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #4 - 11/26/09 at 14:08:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	You´re right, I didnt play through the whole game, White missed winning chances later on. The point though was that the opening was a success for Black (Wei Ming even slightly prefers Black in the annotations). My own opinion is that against the universal the Leningrad is a good option (the White Knights are not well co-ordinated), but against the standard Ne2 Tarrasch there are some critical options involving f4 systems.


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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #3 - 11/26/09 at 13:23:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	Keano wrote on 11/26/09 at 11:51:48: Hmm, you´ve lost me there since Pavasovic-Gurevich was a complete vindication of Blacks strategy - Black is better out of the opening, at what point to you conclude he is lost? I´m not a subscriber and so have no access to the annotations. At least after move 35 only White could play for the full point by picking up a4. I´m under the impression that in general White is able to improve his position with h4-h5 as in the game Nunn-Bischoff, Hamburg 1984 or Nb1-c3 played later by Pavasovic. In my mind blacks strategy is too onesided and puts no pressure on White. I have only looked into this in the universal system and so cannot tell you much about it after Ne2


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #2 - 11/26/09 at 11:51:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hmm, you´ve lost me there since Pavasovic-Gurevich was a complete vindication of Blacks strategy - Black is better out of the opening, at what point to you conclude he is lost? So what system to you propose in the standard Leningrad system (White Knight on e2, not f3) - f4 systems or playing Nd2-f3. I´ve not found anything very promising for White - the book recommendations (e.g. Tzermiadianos) are somewhat on the light side and fail to take into account Blacks various ideas.


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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	Re: The Leningrad System Reply #1 - 11/26/09 at 11:39:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	In the game Pavasovic-Gurevich Black seemed to be lost at some point. I´m sure there are improvements but at least in practice this setup scored very bad for Black. There is no reason for Black to play so passively. I have looked into this for White recently and would surely be happy to see this on the board instead of something more challenging.


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	C03,C05: The Leningrad System 11/26/09 at 09:18:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	There was a case made for the Leningrad System against the Tarrasch "universal system": http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/2/apr09.htm My question is this - I know the Leningrad (against the standard Tarrasch) was moderately popular in a kind of off-beat way back in the 80's, so why has it gone completely out of sight at GM level? Too provocative? Lack of space? But you can say the same thing about a number of other openings, could it be its waiting for a new heroe, or is it one of those lines thats too much trouble than its worth...
	« Last Edit: 07/24/11 at 08:34:00 by dom »

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