ChessPub Forum - C40: New move in the Latvian

Conquistador Junior Member Offline WWAD-What Would Alekhine Do? Posts: 53 Joined: 11/29/09	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #117 - 02/04/11 at 22:59:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	In the line you gave AMM, I propose an improvement. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 5.Nc3 Qf7 6.Ne3 c6 7.d3 exd3 8.Bxd3 d5 9.0-0 Bd6 10.Nexd5 cxd5 11.Nb5 Bc7 12.Re1+ Kd8 13.Bg5+ Nf6 14.Be4 Re8 15.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 16.Qxe1 Bxh2+ 17.Kf1 Qe8 18.Qa5+ to keep queens on the board. An example line 18...b6 19.Qb4 a5 20.Qc4 Qxb5 21.Qxb5 Ba6 22.Bxf6+ gxf6 23.Qxa6 Rxa6 24.g3 Ra7 25.Kg2 Bxg3 26.fxg3 when black's position is full of weaknesses. Can black hold this position?


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #116 - 01/29/11 at 19:33:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: MAYBE LATVIAN IS STILL ALIVE !? ... If the Latvian is a forced draw, then maybe the King's Gambit is a forced win for White.

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Re: New move in the Latvian
Reply #115 - 01/29/11 at 17:42:33

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g2-g4 wrote on 09/16/10 at 18:54:21:

AMM wrote on 09/12/10 at 11:43:58:

Only 11..Bc7 is the correct one.

Is it?
12.Re1+ Kd8 - forced
12...Be6?? or 12...Ne7?? is met with 13.Nxc7+
12....Ne7 13.b3 Nf6 14.Ba3+ Kg8 15.Re7 Bxh2+ (but what else?) 16.Kh1 Qf8 17.Rxb7 +-
13.Bg5+ Nf6 - forced
13...Kd7? 14.Qg4+ with soon mate
14.Be4 (14.Bc4 also looks promising, but it disables c2-c4 option) Re8 again looks forced
14...Be6 15.c4 crushes Black's center
15.Bxd5 Rxe1+ forced 16.Qxe1 Bxh2+ - probably forced
16...Qd7? 17.Rd1 +-
16...Qxd5!? 17.Rd1 Qxd1 18.Qxd1+ Bd7 19.Qd5 Kc8 20.Bxf6 gf 21.Qg8+ Bd8 22.Nd6+ Kc7 23.Nxb7 Nc6 24.Nxd8 Rxd8 25.Qxh7 may be a better choice, but doubtfully Black can survive in this endgame.
17.Kf1 Qe8
17...Qxd5 is worse than a move ago 18.Rd1
17...Qe7 18.Qa5+ Bc7 19.Qd2 Nbd7 20.Nxc7 Kxc7 21.Qa5+ Nb6 22.Rd1 with very strong attack
18.Qxe8+ Kxe8 29.Bxf6 gf 20.g3 As you can see, Black can't deviate and after 11...Bc7 he is forced to reach this position:

Can he hold this position? Obviously, further analysis is needed, but first impression is that he can't due to much less active pieces and weakness of his kingside pawns.

Summarizing the debate, the sources of classical Main line in the Latvian is 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 5.Nc3 Qf7 ( by far, this variation is the most played at present at least in CC, ... but as we will see, perhaps we should back to the more classic 5..Qg6 ) 6.Ne3 c6 ( 6..d5!? has been discussed extensively at the beggining of this debate too ) 7.d3 exd3 8.Bxd3 d5 9.0-0 reaching to the critical position. Black has proved most of the legal movements - up to 9 ! - but finally only 9..Bc5?! and 9..Bd6 was considered:

1) 9..Bc5?! has always been the first line that was tested, but from five years ago is known 10.b4! ( Stuart James ) refutes whole System ( see http://www.jeremysilman.com//chess_opng_anlys/040223_more_splat_the_lat.html and http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1194567910/30 in this last one, note of Russian I.Terenin, "g2-g4", with 14.Rb1! ). A recent game with Terenin's reccomendation was: 10..Bd6 ( 10..Bxb4 11.Nexd5 cxd5 12.Nb5 etc. of Rosenstielke-Melchor, cr e-mail, V LG World Ch., Final, 2005/06, 1-0, 25, see Jeremy Silman's link ) 11.Re1 Ne7 12.Nexd5! cxd5 13.Nb5 Bxb4 ( 13..0-0 14.Nxd6 Qxf2+ 15.Kh1 Bg4 16.Qd2 Qf6 -16..Qxd2 17.Bxd2; 16..Qh4 17.Bb2 - 17.Qg5! and paradoxically we have trasposed to a known line with 9..Bd6 favourable as White ) 14.Rb1! 0-0 15.Rxb4 Qxf2+ 16.Kh1 Nbc6 17.Be3 Qf6 18.Rf4 +- Qxf4 ( 18..Bf5 19.Bxf5 Nxf5 20.Bc5 ) 19.Bxf4 Rxf4 20.Nc7 Bg4 21.Bxh7+! Kh8 ( 21..Kxh7 22.Qd3+ Bf5 23.Qg3 ) 22.Qc1 Raf8 23.Bd3 R4f6 24.Kg1 Bf5 25.Bxf5 Rxf5 26.Qa3 Ng6 27.Nxd5 ( Melchor-Paiva Moreira, cr e-mail, LADAC thema Final, 2010/11, 1-0, 39 )

2) 9..Bd6 Black has achieved some strategic advantages in long-term. So soon, has strengthened a central extra pawn and the position of his Queen will be quite useful when castling since it will pressure along ‘f’ column. Moreover, quickly will show he did achieve a showy game if complete the development of his pieces ..Ne7 and ..0-0, the King will be safe while the White knights are poorly placed. The central Black pawns prevent the Knights moving forward and e3 one also blocks the Bishop of ‘c1’. The only problem for the Black is in most of the lines must be careful to the sacrifices Nexd5 ( again ... ) for the purpose of which is not another that obstruct the castling.

Now "Main" line 10. Re1 Ne7 11.Nexd5!? cxd5 12.Nb5 etc. has been analyzed deeply at http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1262014233/90 ( including the relative best 15..Qf6! where another Russian player got an easy draw against me ! ), and thus I. Terenin ( again ! ) have suggested the other known dangerous move-manoeuvre 10.Nexd5! cxd5 11.Nb5 directly where 11..Bc7 is the unique move. According diagram - and analysis - above, after 12.Re1+ Kd8 ( I add 12..Kf8?! 13.b3 with attack ) 13. Bg5+ Nf6 14.Be4! ( 14.Bc4 looks promising, but after 14..Be6 15.Bxd5 Bxd5 16.c4 Kc8 - or 16..Nbd7!? - 17.Bxf6 Bf3! etc. Melchor-Sakai, cr e-mail, V LG Wotld Ch., sf. A, 2004/05, 1/2-1/2, 36 or 15.Rxe6!? Qxe6 16.Bxd5 Qe5 17.Bxb7+ Nbd7 etc. with a very complicated game for both players - you can continue analyzing this great line ! - ) 14..Re8 ( 14..Be6 15.c4 ) 15.Bxd5 Rxe1+ 16.Qxe1 Bxh2+ 17.Kf1 Qe8 18.Qxe8+ Kxe8 19.Bxf6 gxf6 20.g3 Terenin ask if Black can hold this position.

Well, according my own experience it is not easy to increase the adventage and even if second player plays accurately, he has get a reasonable draw possibilities: So, 20..Bxg3 21.fxg3 Kd8 22.Rd1 Nd7 23.Kf2 ( 23.Kg2 ) 23..a5 24.c4 h6 25.Rd4 f5 26.Nd6 Kc7 27.Be6 Nb6 28.Bxc8 Nxc8 29.Nxf5 Ra6 30.Kf3 Rf6 31.Kf4 and now instead of 31..Ne7?! 32.g4 Ng6+ 33.Kg3 Ne5 34.Re4 etc. with a difficult ending in Melchor-Borrmann, cr e-mail, LADAC thema Final, 2010/11 better looks 31..a4 32.g4 Ne7 33.Re4 Ng6+ 34.Kg3 Nf8 35.b4 axb3 36.axb3 Rb6 37.Re3 Nd7 or 30..a4 31.b4 azb3 32.axb3 Rb6 33.Rd3 Rf6 34.Kg4 Rg6+ 35.Kf4 h5 36.Rd1 Rg4+ 37.Kf3 Rg5 38.Nd4 Kd6 39.Nb5+ Ke7 40.Rd3 Rf5+

MAYBE LATVIAN IS STILL ALIVE !? ...

« Last Edit: 01/30/11 at 14:43:59 by AMM »

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Jupp53 YaBB Moderator Offline be Posts: 988 Location: Frankfurt/Main Joined: 01/04/09 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #114 - 11/16/10 at 14:53:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	belgian wrote on 11/15/10 at 21:34:14: sloughter wrote on 11/15/10 at 02:06:32: I think the simplest refutation is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Bc4 +/- 3.Bc4 certainly looks good, but the traditional recipe is 3.Nxe5. I am curious why you are recommending 3.Bc4 over 3.Nxe5 ? What do you call traditional? Mieses/Dufresne in the early 30th of the last century did recommend 3. Bc4 as at least equal to 3. Nxe5 Qe7! Iirc they gave some 3.Nxe5 lines for teaching purposes about tactical motivs in the opening. If you got strong enough to recognize that 3.Bc4 is at least as strong as 3.Nex5 you will see the general problems of the Latvian Gambit too, including the need for white to attack accordingly to the positional demands.

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belgian Full Member Offline Passionate about chess and poker... Posts: 129 Location: Toronto Joined: 05/14/07 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #113 - 11/15/10 at 21:34:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	sloughter wrote on 11/15/10 at 02:06:32: I think the simplest refutation is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Bc4 +/- 3.Bc4 certainly looks good, but the traditional recipe is 3.Nxe5. I am curious why you are recommending 3.Bc4 over 3.Nxe5 ?


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sloughter God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Location: schoharie Joined: 12/29/08 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #112 - 11/15/10 at 02:06:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	AMM wrote on 09/14/10 at 00:25:48: Only as a curiosity. 109 replies and more than 8.000 views !; one of the most visited threads here .. but still few people comment last developements ... It's not easy "to refute"an Opening ( LG, Traxler, or any ), perhaps only Damiano's 2..f6 or 2..Nc6 3. Bc4 Nd4 .. I got an excellent game against GM Arthur Bisguier when he was the fifth highest GM in the country in a simul using the Damiano Gambit. I was up a Knight in a Rook, Knight and pawn ending against Rook and pawns; all he had were doubled, isolated pawns that were not far advanced. It is customary for GM's, though, to win inferior endgames against weak opponents. I think the simplest refutation is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Bc4 +/-


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AMM Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 110 Location: Barcelona - Spain Joined: 11/08/07 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #111 - 11/13/10 at 23:03:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	g2-g4 Quote: Personally, I never liked this queen retreat. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 5.Nc3 Qf7 6.Ne3 c6 7.d3 exd3 8.Bxd3 d5 9.0–0 Bd6 10.Nexd5!? cxd5 11.Nb5 Qd7? 12.Bg5 A) 12...Be7 13.Re1 Kd8 Other moves are worse: 13...Nf6 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qh5+ Kd8 (15...Kf8 16.Nd4!) 16.Rad1 a6 17.Nc3 Bb4 18.Bf5 Qxf5 19.Rxd5+ Qd7 20.Rxd7+ Nxd7 21.Re3 Bxc3 22.Rxc3+- or 13...a6 14.Qh5+ Kd8 15.Be3! Qc6 16.Nd4+- 14.Qd2 Black is totally undeveloped and it is not clear, how he can survive. 14.Qh5 is also good, e.g. 14...Nc6 15.Qf7 Nf6 16.Qxg7 Rg8 17.Qxf6! Bxf6 18.Bxf6+ Ne7 19.Bxe7+ Qxe7 20.Rxe7 Kxe7 21.Nc7 Rb8 22.Nxd5+ Kf7 23.Bxh7+- 14...Nc6 let AMM to win nicely: (14...Nf6 was stronger, but nevertheless after 15.Rad1 White should win) 15.Qf4 Nh6 16.Rxe7 Nxe7 17.Re1 Re8 18.Nd6 Qc7 19.Rxe7 Qxe7 20.Nxe8 1–0 Melchor Munoz,A-De Jong,S/corr 1998 B) 12...Ne7 13.Qh5+ Kf8 or 13...g6 14.Bxg6+ Nxg6 15.Rfe1+ Kf7 16.Qf3+ Kg8 17.Qxd5+ Qf7 18.Qxd6+- 14.Rfe1 Nbc6 15.Re3+- C) 12...Nf6 13.Re1+ Kf8 a) 13...Kf7? 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qh5+ Kg7 16.Nxd6 Qxd6 17.Re3+-; b) 13...Kd8? 14.Bxf6+ gxf6 15.Qf3 Rf8 16.Bc4!+- (Weaker is 16.Rad1? 1/2 Gaard,K (2287)-Downey,M (2372)/SEMI email 2002 (31) ); c) 13...Be7? 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qh5+ Kd8 (15...Kf8 16.Qh6+ Kf7 17.Re3+-) 16.Rad1; 14.Qf3 (14.Bxf6!?) Qd8 15.Bxf6 gxf6 was played in Borrmann,F-Gamant,G/Brazil CXEB 2000 and here again White could win after 16.Bc4! +-. D) Also, there’s no time to drive annoying knight away. If 12...a6, then 13.Re1+ My reply Ok, all its right in your lines above, but what's with the intersection of White pawn 'b4' ?. Thus: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 5.Nc3 Qf7 6.Ne3 c6 7.d3 exd3 8.Bxd3 d5 9.0–0 Bc5 10.b4! Bd6 11.Nexd5!? cxd5 12.Nb5 Qd7. The same position of a previous Diagram, only pawn is in 'b4'. Now 13.Bg5+ Nf6 14.Re1+ Kf8! ( 14..Kd8? is weaker, but 14..Be7!? confuse, is possible ) 15.Qf3 Be7 so if 16.Qf4 Nc6! 17.Bxf6 gxf6 18.Nc7 Kg7! 19.Qg3+ Kf7 20.Nxa8 Bxb4 solving all problems. Also 12.Re1+ Kd8! 13.Bc4 Nf6 14.Bxd5 Qh5 15.Bf4 Qxd1 16.Raxd1 Bxb4! ( Melchor-Paiva Moreira, cr email LADAC thema, 2008/09 ) with very unclear game very difficult on evaluating by engines Maybe 11.Re1 Ne7 12.Nexd5 cxd5 13.Nb5 0-0 etc. trasposing to a known LG position ? LG continues surviving ...
	« Last Edit: 11/14/10 at 12:00:31 by AMM »

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Re: New move in the Latvian
Reply #110 - 09/16/10 at 18:54:21

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AMM wrote on 09/12/10 at 11:43:58:

Only 11..Bc7 is the correct one.

Is it?
12.Re1+ Kd8 - forced
12...Be6?? or 12...Ne7?? is met with 13.Nxc7+
12....Ne7 13.b3 Nf6 14.Ba3+ Kg8 15.Re7 Bxh2+ (but what else?) 16.Kh1 Qf8 17.Rxb7 +-
13.Bg5+ Nf6 - forced
13...Kd7? 14.Qg4+ with soon mate
14.Be4 (14.Bc4 also looks promising, but it disables c2-c4 option) Re8 again looks forced
14...Be6 15.c4 crushes Black's center
15.Bxd5 Rxe1+ forced 16.Qxe1 Bxh2+ - probably forced
16...Qd7? 17.Rd1 +-
16...Qxd5!? 17.Rd1 Qxd1 18.Qxd1+ Bd7 19.Qd5 Kc8 20.Bxf6 gf 21.Qg8+ Bd8 22.Nd6+ Kc7 23.Nxb7 Nc6 24.Nxd8 Rxd8 25.Qxh7 may be a better choice, but doubtfully Black can survive in this endgame.
17.Kf1 Qe8
17...Qxd5 is worse than a move ago 18.Rd1
17...Qe7 18.Qa5+ Bc7 19.Qd2 Nbd7 20.Nxc7 Kxc7 21.Qa5+ Nb6 22.Rd1 with very strong attack
18.Qxe8+ Kxe8 29.Bxf6 gf 20.g3 As you can see, Black can't deviate and after 11...Bc7 he is forced to reach this position:

Can he hold this position? Obviously, further analysis is needed, but first impression is that he can't due to much less active pieces and weakness of his kingside pawns.

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AMM Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 110 Location: Barcelona - Spain Joined: 11/08/07 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #109 - 09/14/10 at 00:25:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Only as a curiosity. 109 replies and more than 8.000 views !; one of the most visited threads here .. but still few people comment last developements ... It's not easy "to refute"an Opening ( LG, Traxler, or any ), perhaps only Damiano's 2..f6 or 2..Nc6 3. Bc4 Nd4 ..
	« Last Edit: 09/14/10 at 13:20:59 by AMM »

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Master Om Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 187 Joined: 02/20/10	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #108 - 09/12/10 at 16:16:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	AMM wrote on 09/12/10 at 11:43:58: Master Om wrote on 09/12/10 at 04:54:42: AMM wrote on 05/08/10 at 21:30:27: I was writting a long article which demostrates that 5..Qg6! is totally playable too, but suddenly my PC crashed ! and I lost all the material.!! So if some players suggest 5..Qf7 is relatively unplayable ( I'm not allright ) I think 5..Qg6 Main line is reasonable as alternative after 6.d3 Bb4 7.Bd2 Nf6! Latvian is not dead yet ... Will you please post these lines in pgn. It will be good to analyse. Enclosed a PGN file with the Line 5..Qg6. Indeed "g2-g4" yes, 11..Qd7?! is a dubious move. Only 11..Bc7 is the correct one. Time to Analyse this After Traxler. Thanks.

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AMM Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 110 Location: Barcelona - Spain Joined: 11/08/07 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #107 - 09/12/10 at 11:43:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Master Om wrote on 09/12/10 at 04:54:42: AMM wrote on 05/08/10 at 21:30:27: I was writting a long article which demostrates that 5..Qg6! is totally playable too, but suddenly my PC crashed ! and I lost all the material.!! So if some players suggest 5..Qf7 is relatively unplayable ( I'm not allright ) I think 5..Qg6 Main line is reasonable as alternative after 6.d3 Bb4 7.Bd2 Nf6! Latvian is not dead yet ... Will you please post these lines in pgn. It will be good to analyse. Enclosed a PGN file with the Line 5..Qg6. Indeed "g2-g4" yes, 11..Qd7?! is a dubious move. Only 11..Bc7 is the correct one.
	« Last Edit: 09/12/10 at 13:09:57 by AMM »
	New.pgn ( 3 KB \| Downloads )
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Master Om Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 187 Joined: 02/20/10	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #106 - 09/12/10 at 04:54:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	AMM wrote on 05/08/10 at 21:30:27: I was writting a long article which demostrates that 5..Qg6! is totally playable too, but suddenly my PC crashed ! and I lost all the material.!! So if some players suggest 5..Qf7 is relatively unplayable ( I'm not allright ) I think 5..Qg6 Main line is reasonable as alternative after 6.d3 Bb4 7.Bd2 Nf6! Latvian is not dead yet ... Will you please post these lines in pgn. It will be good to analyse.

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Re: New move in the Latvian
Reply #105 - 09/10/10 at 12:37:34

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AMM wrote on 09/03/10 at 12:55:31:

10.Nexd5!? cxd5 11.Nb5 can be replied by means 11..Bc7 – safer – or even 11..Qd7

Personally, I never liked this queen retreat.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.Nc4 fxe4 5.Nc3 Qf7 6.Ne3 c6 7.d3 exd3 8.Bxd3 d5 9.0–0 Bd6 10.Nexd5!? cxd5 11.Nb5 Qd7? 12.Bg5

A) 12...Be7 13.Re1 Kd8 Other moves are worse:
            13...Nf6 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qh5+ Kd8 (15...Kf8 16.Nd4!) 16.Rad1 a6 17.Nc3 Bb4 18.Bf5 Qxf5 19.Rxd5+ Qd7 20.Rxd7+ Nxd7 21.Re3 Bxc3 22.Rxc3+- or
            13...a6 14.Qh5+ Kd8 15.Be3! Qc6 16.Nd4+-
14.Qd2 Black is totally undeveloped and it is not clear, how he can survive.
            14.Qh5 is also good, e.g. 14...Nc6 15.Qf7 Nf6 16.Qxg7 Rg8 17.Qxf6! Bxf6 18.Bxf6+ Ne7 19.Bxe7+ Qxe7 20.Rxe7 Kxe7 21.Nc7 Rb8 22.Nxd5+ Kf7 23.Bxh7+-
14...Nc6 let AMM to win nicely: (14...Nf6 was stronger, but nevertheless after 15.Rad1 White should win) 15.Qf4 Nh6 16.Rxe7 Nxe7 17.Re1 Re8 18.Nd6 Qc7 19.Rxe7 Qxe7 20.Nxe8 1–0 Melchor Munoz,A-De Jong,S/corr 1998

B) 12...Ne7 13.Qh5+ Kf8 or 13...g6 14.Bxg6+ Nxg6 15.Rfe1+ Kf7 16.Qf3+ Kg8 17.Qxd5+ Qf7 18.Qxd6+- 14.Rfe1 Nbc6 15.Re3+-

C) 12...Nf6 13.Re1+ Kf8
            a) 13...Kf7? 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qh5+ Kg7 16.Nxd6 Qxd6 17.Re3+-;
            b) 13...Kd8? 14.Bxf6+ gxf6 15.Qf3 Rf8 16.Bc4!+- (Weaker is 16.Rad1? 1/2 Gaard,K (2287)-Downey,M (2372)/SEMI email 2002 (31) );
            c) 13...Be7? 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.Qh5+ Kd8 (15...Kf8 16.Qh6+ Kf7 17.Re3+-) 16.Rad1;
14.Qf3 (14.Bxf6!?) Qd8 15.Bxf6 gxf6 was played in Borrmann,F-Gamant,G/Brazil CXEB 2000 and here again White could win after 16.Bc4! +-.

D) Also, there’s no time to drive annoying knight away. If 12...a6, then 13.Re1+

« Last Edit: 09/10/10 at 16:14:09 by g2-g4 »

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AMM Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 110 Location: Barcelona - Spain Joined: 11/08/07 Gender:	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #104 - 09/06/10 at 21:53:02	Post Tools	Print Post
	Korch wrote on 01/01/10 at 19:06:04: AMM, May I ask your opinion about position after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f5 3. Nxe5 Qf6 4. Nc4 fxe4 5. Nc3 Qf7 6. Ne3 d5 7. Nexd5 Be6 8. Bc4 Na6 9. Bxa6 bxa6 10. Ne3 Nf6 11. f4 ? What would you suggest for Black? Korch ( or any reader ): After your long analysis with 11..0-0-0 12.Qe2 Kb7 etc. ( page 3 ) in which despite of bad pawn structure, Black seems to have some compensation due to bishop pair and better development, and I'm not specially worried with this continuation. But, what`s about 11.b3!? Bd6 12.Qe2 0-0 13.Bb2 ? of an owner game Trofimov-Melchor, cr. VI LG World Ch. final, e-mail, 2010 ( still in progress at move 30 ) I was dragged to an "empty" position after 13..a5 ( better 13..Rae8 but 14.h3 is already upper hand ) 14.o-o-o Qd7 15.h3 Qc6?! 16.Qb5!?. Anyway Buecker reccomensation 7..Be6 perhaps we must to come back old 7..c6 8.Ne3 Nf6 etc. ?


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SWJediknight God Member Offline Alert... opponent out of book! Posts: 916 Joined: 03/14/08	Re: New move in the Latvian Reply #103 - 09/03/10 at 23:08:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stefan Buecker wrote on 09/03/10 at 22:04:43: I I understand SWJediknights doubts ("I really don't think finding ways for Black to draw after long variations changes the assessment"), but I see the distilling of this "long variation" as a search for the truth, which can also teach us a lot about opening theory, the value of a pawn, the use of PCs and more. The assessment +/- may not be changed, but it may change our view what +/- means. The result can be a line which refutes the Latvian Gambit. But if such a line cannot be established, it would also be interesting. Some people solve tactical problems to improve their tactical vision. Studying the "Latvian ending" can be at least as useful, as a case study about how to draw a rook ending, or how to create winning chances in such an ending. Hope I didn't come across the wrong way- I was thinking purely in terms of the question "is the Latvian playable or not", not trying to suggest that this kind of analysis is futile on all counts. I completely agree with the above, as someone who regularly takes an interest in analysis of sharp lines for similar reasons. Re. AMM, in that last line, I've had a quick look at some deviations: A) 22.Nxf5 Rxf5 23.Be3 Rb8 24.Re2 (24.b3 a6 25.Rac1 Nf4 26.g4 Rff8 27.Bxf4 Rxf4 leads to a better, but probably drawn, rook and pawn ending) 24...Re8 (24...Nf4 25 Rf2 +-) 25.Rf2 (25.Rae1 Nf4 forces the minor pieces off again, giving a drawish rook & pawn ending) 25...Rxf2 26.Bxf2 a6 27.Re1 Rxe1+ 28.Bxe1 Nf4 29.d4 leaving an ending with B+5Ps vs N+4Ps. A sample line: 29...Ne2 30.Bc3 Kf7 (not 30...Nxc3 31.bxc3 +-) 31.g4 Kg6 32.Kg2 - to be honest I'm not sure if Black can hold this ending or not. I agree with Stefan's suggestion of 19.Bxg6 hxg6 20.h3- I think even just looking at the position on a basic level, it must be an improved version of the same ending for White as it's Black's pawn structure that is worsened as a result of the knight-for-bishop exchange instead of White's. Just out of interest I tried out 20...Bf5 21.Nd6 Bxc2 22.Rac1 Nb4 23.Re7 Rad8 24.Rb7 (24.Rxa7 Rxd6 25.Be7 Rc6 26.Bxb4 Rf2 27.Bc3 Be4 28.Re1 Rf7 29.Ra8+ Rf8 30.Rxf8+ Kxf8- the opposite-coloured bishops may give Black good drawing chances here) 24...Rxd6 25.Be7 Rb6 26.Rxb6 axb6 27.Bxf8 Kxf8 28.a3! (the point- admittedly spotted by Fritz rather than myself) 28...d4 29.Rf1+ Ke7 30.axb4, which leaves White an exchange up with excellent winning chances, so objectively speaking 21...Bxc2 doesn't appear to work.
	« Last Edit: 09/04/10 at 00:50:40 by SWJediknight »

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