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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition? (Read 150617 times)
MartinC
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #39 - 03/03/12 at 23:39:36
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Probably more than one thing - the previous one had a section on 6.. Qc7 and a whole alternative solid option with 3.. Nf6 instead. 

Since he seems to like changing what he covers though, 7.. Qc7 wouldn't be a surprise. Especially with it having recovered popularity recently.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #38 - 03/03/12 at 23:00:26
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http://www.everymanchess.com/chess/books/Play_the_French%2C_4th_edition

I wonder what the recommendation against 7. Qg4 in the Winawer will be in the 4th Edition. 7...0-0 was in the 3rd Edition, and 7...Qc7 is in Vitiugov's book.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #37 - 12/29/11 at 11:39:22
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knightmare wrote on 12/27/11 at 16:05:27:
There's a very wise sentence on Boris Avrukhs great books (GM-Repertoire 1.d4): 'Tired of bad positions? Try the main lines!'

So I wonder why so many people here are calling for a treatment of offbeat-lines in a forthcoming "play-the-french"-edition. The strength (and partly existence) of those lines lies in the lack of treatment in books by qualified authors IMHO. 
I'm pretty sure that 2.f4 would not survive an in-depth-analysis by Watson, and the fate of 2.b3 would likely be something like "the best white can hope for is equality". 



Yes, but one can't prevent the opponent from playing side lines.

Quote:
Coverage of the King's Indian Attack is understandable, but fifteen pages devoted to 2. f4 is not.


I wasn't thinking he should give it something like fifteen pages. Even if there was just one page of 2.f4, it would contain many more lines about that variation than PTF3.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #36 - 12/27/11 at 21:03:39
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knightmare wrote on 12/27/11 at 16:05:27:
There's a very wise sentence on Boris Avrukhs great books (GM-Repertoire 1.d4): 'Tired of bad positions? Try the main lines!'

So I wonder why so many people here are calling for a treatment of offbeat-lines in a forthcoming "play-the-french"-edition. The strength (and partly existence) of those lines lies in the lack of treatment in books by qualified authors IMHO. 
I'm pretty sure that 2.f4 would not survive an in-depth-analysis by Watson, and the fate of 2.b3 would likely be something like "the best white can hope for is equality". 



Exactly--I do not understand why people play sidelines like that, unless they deliberately choose to obtain a worse position out of the opening and frustrate their opponent by not losing in the first 20 moves. If the book is to cater to 2200+ and titled players as well, seeing heavy analysis on a minor sideline such as 2. f4, eschewing critical analyses of the Main Lines such as the Winawer would not be favourable. Coverage of the King's Indian Attack is understandable, but fifteen pages devoted to 2. f4 is not.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #35 - 12/27/11 at 17:55:31
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For me, the question isn't whether a move is "chess", it's about economy. Moves such as 2.f4 can be covered well enough in a chapter on odds and ends, as Watson has done in the past. I don't need a lot of pages devoted to a sideline if Watson gives at least one line that is sensible and works against those club players. 

Of the "minor" variations, I hope he spends some renewed energy on the King's Indian Attack lines. I've found that chapter to be relatively weak compared to how he deals with the main lines. Dvoretsky's handling of the King's Indian Attack, as seen in his series of books (under too many different titles to mention), should be addressed.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #34 - 12/27/11 at 17:42:33
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@ knightmare
Well, moves like 2.f4 (after 1.e4 e6) have their places under the sun. Don't be too harsh!.. It's chess after all.. For example 2.f4!? is played in 2939 games with 47.7% success for white as per my reference database. So I won't vote for condemnation of this move. In fact, this setup (with 3.e5, 4.Nf3, 5.c3, 6.Na3 followed by Nc2, Bd3 and so on) is a very smart try to outplay the opponent. All I wanted to say in my last post in this thread is that black has a good answer (with Ng8-e7-g6 and f7-f6)..  Roll Eyes
Btw, let's see how one of the most original players nowadays plays this with white:
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #33 - 12/27/11 at 17:37:05
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Sort of Smiley "a safe move, but b3 and e4 do not mix very well'. 

2 f4 not ever going to be awful or refuted but not something that needs a thorough treatment either. Although the odd relatively serious game on my database so knowing Watson he might Smiley (Nh6 - f5 seems common, but very varied after that.).
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #32 - 12/27/11 at 16:05:27
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There's a very wise sentence on Boris Avrukhs great books (GM-Repertoire 1.d4): 'Tired of bad positions? Try the main lines!'

So I wonder why so many people here are calling for a treatment of offbeat-lines in a forthcoming "play-the-french"-edition. The strength (and partly existence) of those lines lies in the lack of treatment in books by qualified authors IMHO. 
I'm pretty sure that 2.f4 would not survive an in-depth-analysis by Watson, and the fate of 2.b3 would likely be something like "the best white can hope for is equality". 

  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #31 - 12/27/11 at 14:11:45
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A good try is this 1.e4 & 2.f4 setup against French.. But I think black can equalize with Ng8-e7-g6 and f7-f6. Just an example (with mixed move order in this game):

And here 10... Bc5! is better than 10... Bb4 as played in the game.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #30 - 12/27/11 at 11:39:24
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MNb wrote on 12/23/11 at 13:31:56:


Thanks for the links.

Quote:
It seems more beneficial to spend more coverage on the main lines, no? It would be good if the book also catered to higher levels such as 2200+.


I'm not suggesting a large coverage, there's only about a tenth of a page about 2.f4 in PTF3. Well of course I could use a database, but I thought it would be useful for many players because it's almost become a main line in FICS at lower levels, and I've faced it at my club, too.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #29 - 12/24/11 at 12:59:49
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I wish this book also comes in eBook format. This is helpful for people like us with less time to enter the moves on a board and can just click it through in eBook. Also for people outside US/Euro, download is a better option than waiting for postal delivery.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #28 - 12/23/11 at 22:45:15
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rukh wrote on 12/23/11 at 10:33:09:
I hope he gives more coverage for 2.f4 this time, because it's quite common at club level and not as bad as it looks. There's almost nothing about it in books.


It seems more beneficial to spend more coverage on the main lines, no? It would be good if the book also catered to higher levels such as 2200+.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #27 - 12/23/11 at 13:31:56
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Try
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2011/goeller-moldovan.htm
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2011/goeller-sherer.htm
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #26 - 12/23/11 at 10:33:09
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I hope he gives more coverage for 2.f4 this time, because it's quite common at club level and not as bad as it looks. There's almost nothing about it in books.
  
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Re: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #25 - 06/10/11 at 18:15:47
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OK...maybe "off topic"

I just noticed it on Chessbase website:

http://chessbase-shop.com/en/products/5994?ref=RF4-HRDKS87TKG

Sam Collins about the Korchnoi gambit ( or Efim Geller gambit...as you can read it in book  with name like "Korchnoi famous games")

(I am lazy opening a new thread for it)

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and about Play The French 4th...date for publication is "Published: March 2012 EU, April 2012 US"..
is not too much early to promote book you cannot read before one year ?

  
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