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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition? (Read 150696 times)
Zwischenzugzwang
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #54 - 03/26/12 at 13:53:49
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Sometimes I regret of neither playing 1.e4 nor (1.e4) 1...e6 ...  Sad
  

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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #53 - 03/26/12 at 12:08:31
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Now that we know there's a two-part GM repertoire on the French coming, it's no longer a big deal whether other books cover enough minor lines. It will still be difficult to decide which new french books to buy, though.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #52 - 03/26/12 at 00:03:36
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It definitely is coming out.  Everyman has it listed for June on the Continent, and August in the States.

http://www.everymanchess.com/chess/books/Play_the_French%2C_4th_edition
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #51 - 03/26/12 at 00:01:28
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Do we know the following for certain (sorry been away for a bit):

1) John Watson is definitely bringing out a 4th edition?
2) Do we know when?
3) Do we know who will be publishing it?

Thanks in advance to the up-to-date responders here.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #50 - 03/06/12 at 02:18:00
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I am looking at my copy of the 3rd Edition, and the minor lines seem to be encompassed in the last chapter entitled "Odds and Ends", which stems from pp. 256-263. If the book is not going to be more than 300 pages, I do not see how minor lines can possibly occupy more than 150, or even 100 pages of the 4th edition.
  

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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #49 - 03/06/12 at 01:25:32
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Watson's book was never meant to be encyclopedic. He knows his audience well. A 2-3 volume book on the French just isn't what Watson's Play the French is about. He will likely keep the 4th edition to under 300 pages, and probably under 240 pages.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #48 - 03/05/12 at 20:13:56
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If a significant portion of the book will end up being minor lines, the only method I can see to rectify this situation would be to split the book into two or three volumes like Quality Chess, I think as you mentioned above. One for minor lines, one or two for the main lines. I would not want to buy one book that was 300 pages and 250 pages dedicated to minor lines, because it would unnecessarily decrease coverage of topical theory. Probably if that were the case a 200-250 page book on minor lines and one or two 200-250 page book on main lines, but I am not sure an author will want to write that much on minor lines.
  

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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #47 - 03/05/12 at 19:56:53
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[quote author=732B2B2321242B2B120 link=1265959700/46#46 date=1330976824]Also if too many pages are devoted to minor lines, the audience rated above 2300 will probably be disappointed. If the publishing company is trying to advance the theory especially at the highest levels, then it would probably be in their best interests to dedicate more pages to the main lines. Unless Topalov starts playing 2. b3 of course...[/quote]

Readers of +2300 is probably no more than 1-5% of the book buyers. 

By the way, Topalov already plays 2.b3 - as in 1.d4 f5 2.b3 ;)
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #46 - 03/05/12 at 19:47:04
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Also if too many pages are devoted to minor lines, the audience rated above 2300 will probably be disappointed. If the publishing company is trying to advance the theory especially at the highest levels, then it would probably be in their best interests to dedicate more pages to the main lines. Unless Topalov starts playing 2. b3 of course...
  

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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #45 - 03/05/12 at 14:08:21
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Quote:
Given the book on 2 b3 I suspect he'll give rather more detail on that this time round.


Well, it's from 2006 and other books on the French since then has hardly mentioned 2.b3... Though I might make an update on it, as I just noticed that it's found some more strong followers in the last few years. Anyway, it could be fun to see what's new nowadays.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #44 - 03/05/12 at 12:46:58
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Rather over the top I'd suspect, especially since a lot of the really early deviations can be handled fairly thematically. The comprehensive 3 book French series (Gambit/Psahkis) put everything early and 'odd' in a book with the advance.

The only thing I can think of that's mostly fallen out of those are all the king indian attack ideas where black goes c5. They tend to be called Sicilians, even that traditional line d5/c5/Be7/Nd7 o-o etc line that Ulhman and co played!

The later deviations after 3 Nc3 - and especially 3 Nd2 Smiley - are so numerous for both sides its almost terrifying. They do get a lot of coverage anyway mind - ~30 pages in PTF3 (with a further 20 for the 5th move deviations.). 

Given the book on 2 b3 I suspect he'll give rather more detail on that this time round.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #43 - 03/05/12 at 11:52:11
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Given the current flood of new books on the French, it should be worthwhile with a book dedicated to all the non-MLs, everything from ML avoidance like 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qd3/a3/Nge2 & 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Qh5 etc etc, all the way to 2.Nf3 d5 3.e5 and on to 2.f4, 2.Qe2, 2.c4 etc - if done well, it surely would be a book cherished by most 1...e6ers and some 1.e4ers, and likely to be reprinted over and over - while the books concentrating on the MLs get 'outdated'  quicker and quicker as the flood continues - though I'd suppose 80-90% of the moves/variations given would be the same from new book to newer book...
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #42 - 03/05/12 at 02:42:20
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It might be a matter of space in the book--more pages spent on minor lines might require the author to decrease coverage on the main lines, in this case of the French they would be Winawer, Classical, MacCutcheon, Tarrasch, Advance. I am not sure how publishing companies address this, but if the author has a page limit and has to decide on 10 more pages on 2. b3 in exchange for decreasing coverage on the Winawer by 10 pages, then it might be a dilemma.

For example, if an author were given the task of writing a 300 page book on the French, the task of deciding how many pages to write on the main lines will have to be further contemplated if 200 pages were initially given to minor lines. Then the author would have to subtract coverage of minor lines to fit more coverage of the main lines.
  

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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #41 - 03/04/12 at 11:29:02
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[quote author=336B6B6361646B6B520 link=1265959700/36#36 date=1325019819][quote author=5B5E595758445D514255300 link=1265959700/32#32 date=1325001927]There's a very wise sentence on Boris Avrukhs great books (GM-Repertoire 1.d4): 'Tired of bad positions? Try the main lines!'

So I wonder why so many people here are calling for a treatment of offbeat-lines in a forthcoming "play-the-french"-edition. The strength (and partly existence) of those lines lies in the lack of treatment in books by qualified authors IMHO. 
I'm pretty sure that 2.f4 would not survive an in-depth-analysis by Watson, and the fate of 2.b3 would likely be something like "the best white can hope for is equality". 

[/quote]

Exactly--I do not understand why people play sidelines like that, unless they deliberately choose to obtain a worse position out of the opening and frustrate their opponent by not losing in the first 20 moves. If the book is to cater to 2200+ and titled players as well, seeing heavy analysis on a minor sideline such as 2. f4, eschewing critical analyses of the Main Lines such as the Winawer would not be favourable. Coverage of the King's Indian Attack is understandable, but fifteen pages devoted to 2. f4 is not.[/quote]

Those "qualified authors" often like to brush away White's options with a few simple lines and a "better for Black verdict", usually ignoring White's best play and setting up their readers for a few nasty surprises eventually.

With best play 2.b3!? may indeed lead to 'equality', but it's the kind of equality seen in the King's Gambit not the QGD. 

Given that the side who plays a sideline often has much more experience of handling the resulting middlegames than the surprised opponent armed with a few lines he's half forgotten already - it would make very good sense for a repertoire book to give good coverage of good responses to sidelines and surprise weapons - after all, the theory of minor variations are less likely to change, while those extra pages on the Winawer or Tarrasch would age a lot sooner.
  
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Re: C00-C19: Play the French 4th edition?
Reply #40 - 03/03/12 at 23:44:48
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The problem with 7...Qc7 is that the positions arising are extremely sharp, and not reminiscent of solid, manoeuvring positions of the French as in 6...Qa5. Hopefully there is another main line covered, as Vitiugov already covered 7...Qc7 twice. When the 3rd Edition was published, I bought it almost specifically for 7...0-0.
  

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