Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is the Moller Dead ? (Read 20402 times)
Carl Boor
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 7
Joined: 04/28/10
Re: Is the Moller Dead ?
Reply #7 - 04/28/10 at 18:22:46
Post Tools
oops, those diagrams did not come through too clean. 


Thanks for the link to the other forum posting. Perhaps we can merge the two threads Markovich ?


PS: Do you still have the game from the simul, that was one of the best games I have ever played and I have lost the score and forgot all the moves.

Carl
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carl Boor
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 7
Joined: 04/28/10
Re: Is the Moller Dead ?
Reply #6 - 04/28/10 at 18:04:53
Post Tools
"I must admit I've never really looked hard at 9...Ne5, but my impression always was that 9...Bf6 refuted the line in a theoretical sense, for after 10.Re1 Ne7 11.Rxe4 d6 12.Bg5 (12.g4 0-0 13.g5 Be5 14.Nxe5 Bf5 =+ - Smit) 12...Bxg5 13.Nxg5 h6 (13...0-0 14.Nxh7 leads to a draw after 14...Kxh7, 14...Bf5 is also equal, while other 14th moves for White give =+ at best) 14.Qe2 (14.Bb5+ Bd7 15.Qe2 Bxb5 16.Qxb5+ Qd7 17.Qxb7 0-0 18.Rae1 Rab8 =+, 14.Qh5 0-0 15.Rae1 Ng6 16.Nf3 =+) 14...hxg5 15.Re1 Be6 16.dxe6 f6 =+."   



I am working on a book on the Moller and part of the reason why is that Black is well advised to take the forced draws in the 9.Bf6 line. I think that this line has been misplayed and misevaluated in Black's favor for far too long.  In general I would evaluate the positions as very unclear but in all of them White has tons of traps and even an edge in the endgame.

Here is an excerpt from my booklet, "The Moller Attack"

17.Re3 White wants to trade off the rooks on h3 and then invade with his queen on the white squares. White also can wait and probe the Queenside with moves like Rb3.

XABCDEFGHY
8r+-wqk+-tr(
7zppzp-sn-zp-'
6-+-zpPzp-+&
5+-+-+-zp-%
4-+L+-+-+$
3+-+-tR-+-#
2PzP-+QzPPzP"
1+-+-tR-mK-!
Xabcdefgh
                       
                 17...d5 

Many moves have been tried for black in this important position such as 17...c6, Kf8 and d5. See illustrative games 9-10. Practice playing this position and trying to attack the black king as well as the Study Positions Section

18.Rh3 Rxh3 

[18...Rg8 19.Qh5+ g6 20.Qh7 Qd6 21.Qf7+ Kd8 22.Rd1 c6 23.Rh7] 

19.gxh3 g6 

20.Qf3 Qd6 

[20...f5 21.Qc3 d4 22.Qb3 b6 23.Qb5+ Kf8 24.Qe5 Kg8 25.Qf6 Amazing dance by the white queen. The position still remains very unclear with equal chances.] 

21.Qxf6 0–0–0 

[21...Qf4 22.Qh8+ Qf8 23.Qd4 Qf4 24.Qh8 =] 

22.Bd3 

XABCDEFGHY
8-+ktr-+-+(
7zppzp-sn-+-'
6-+-wqPwQp+&
5+-+p+-zp-%
4-+-+-+-+$
3+-+L+-+P#
2PzP-+-zP-zP"
1+-+-tR-mK-!

There is no saving the doubled pawns and white will plan to push the e pawn and the h pawn. The Bishop gives white the edge in the coming sharp ending. 


I did some very deep analysis on this position and would hapily take it on for a correspondence game for White. This is just a sample of the possibilities starting from the 9...Bf6 mainline. I have to disagree when you guys say that 9...Bf6 is just as challenging as 9...Ne5 which I feel is an attempt at an outright refutation.


Over and out. 

By the way I am looking for a publisher for to subbit "The Moller Attack" to. Any advice or leads would be appreciated.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Is the Moller Dead ?
Reply #5 - 04/28/10 at 14:12:16
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 04/28/10 at 12:12:33:
If you had an improvement here you'd better save it and use it, because you're bound to rack up point after point.


Yeah, every time you meet the Moeller.  For all the points you would score, you might just as well send it in to the letter section of the NIC Yearbook, where at least you would get credit for overturning longstanding theory.

But I too was under the impression that 9...Bf6 not only was considered better for Black, but was the theoretically "correct" move. 
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 916
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: Is the Moller Dead ?
Reply #4 - 04/28/10 at 13:59:12
Post Tools
I believe after 12...Qf6 13.Qxf6, the resulting pins down the e-file give White enough initiative to regain the piece with interest.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jitb
Ex Member


Re: Is the Moller Dead ?
Reply #3 - 04/28/10 at 13:10:12
Post Tools
Why exactly is the line with 11... Ncd6 12. Qxg7 winning for white? Black is a piece up. Huh
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1846
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Is the Moller Dead ?
Reply #2 - 04/28/10 at 12:12:33
Post Tools
Hi Carl, 

Firstly, nice to see another Ohioan around here. 

Secondly, I was under the same impression as Jedi. I believe Marin gives the exact line, and I think most sources have stuck by this line as well as being the best way for Black. If you had an improvement here you'd better save it and use it, because you're bound to rack up point after point.

-Tony
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 916
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: Is the Moller Dead ?
Reply #1 - 04/28/10 at 09:54:06
Post Tools
I must admit I've never really looked hard at 9...Ne5, but my impression always was that 9...Bf6 refuted the line in a theoretical sense, for after 10.Re1 Ne7 11.Rxe4 d6 12.Bg5 (12.g4 0-0 13.g5 Be5 14.Nxe5 Bf5 =+ - Smit) 12...Bxg5 13.Nxg5 h6 (13...0-0 14.Nxh7 leads to a draw after 14...Kxh7, 14...Bf5 is also equal, while other 14th moves for White give =+ at best) 14.Qe2 (14.Bb5+ Bd7 15.Qe2 Bxb5 16.Qxb5+ Qd7 17.Qxb7 0-0 18.Rae1 Rab8 =+, 14.Qh5 0-0 15.Rae1 Ng6 16.Nf3 =+) 14...hxg5 15.Re1 Be6 16.dxe6 f6 =+.  Furthermore due to the simplification White's practical chances are not great, though at low levels it may still be a dangerous weapon as Black may often err before reaching the end point of any of the critical lines after 9...Bf6 or 9...Ne5.

Perhaps better for the gambiteer are the deviations 4.d4, 4.0-0 with the idea 4...Nf6 5.d4, and 6.0-0- they offer at least as many practical chances at low levels and have the additional advantage of being reasonably sound.  There is also Stefan Buecker's interesting suggestion 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nbd2, which I don't completely trust for White but it looks more promising than the Moller at the moment.

Also, for more interest, here: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1139505788/6
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carl Boor
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 7
Joined: 04/28/10
Is the Moller Dead ?
04/28/10 at 07:09:03
Post Tools
Hi all, this is my first post. Recently I have been working on the Moller Attack in the Italian game for students and have been hitting a brick wall trying to find anything for white after the following moves...

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Nf6 5. d4 exd4
6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nc3 Nxe4 8. O-O Bxc3 9. d5 Ne5 {
Much better than 9...Bf6 which has many a force draw...} 
10.bxc3 Nxc4 11. Qd4 O-O !(11... Ncd6?? 12. Qxg7+-).12. Qxe4 Nd6 13. Qd3 Qf6 14. Bg5 we have been following Gashimov Domingez 2010 which was featured in this months update. White managed to draw after 14...Qf5 but I feel that 14...Qg6 is an even sterner approach meeting 15.Qg6 with fg followed by Rf5. 

Trying to improve on this line, I have looked at 13.Qf4 as well as the early deviation 10.Qe2 (which Gashimov actually played) but it simply transposes.

Unless somthing can be found then it would seem the Moller is "refuted" because black holds a solid edge in the line starting with 9...Ne5!

Appreciate your thoughts.



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo