The replacement of Nf3 with f4 changes the position substantially. Compared to the Petroff, White has a central pawn majority after 3.fe5 Ne4 4.Nf3, the e4-knight is more vulnerable than in the Petroff, and White will gain a greater control of the centre.

In that sense, 2.f4 Nf6 is essentially a poor man's Petroff, whereas 2...ef4 has always been considered to offer Black full equality.

yeah, this has basically become my KG defense in blitz now, and it's working better than any defense i've tried before, but i can't shake this suspicion that there's some refutation. it just seems so simple and easy to play that i figure there's some reason no one ever recommended it in one of those play 1...e5 books. 

oh well, if anyone can refute this thing, please let me know before it happens to me in a game that counts for something

and i'm not gonna lie, none of the lines posted above seem super scary for black to me.

micawber wrote on 08/24/10 at 16:51:06:


Based on my analysis.. 4..Be7 is comparatively fine for Black compared to 4..Ng5

Kylemeister is right.
The move in itself is quite old, and is allready mentioned by El Greco. In older books it is referred to as the Gunsberg Defence.
Some nuances:

1.e4,e5 2.f4,Nf6
A) 3.Nc3,d5 transposes to the Vienna Defence, while 3...exf is a good alternative for Black
B) 3.Nf3,exf 4.e5,Nh5 transposes to the Schallop Defence.
C) 3.Nf3,d5 4.fxe5,Ne4 5.d3!,Nc5 6.d4,Ne4
     7.Bd3! += 
     C1)  7...Be7 8.0-0,0-0 9.c4 +/- Bronstein-Kostro, 1970
     C2)  7...c5 8.0-0,Nc6 9.Nbd2 +/- Grasso-Nienhuis, corr.1998
3.fxe5,Ne4
4.Nf3, Ng5! (Other moves give White some advantage. Note that 4...d5 transposes to 3.Nf3,d5 4.fxe,Ne4)
5.d4!
A) 5.Nxg5=,Qxg5 6.Qe2, Nc6 =
B) 5.c3=, d6! 6.exd6 (better d4) , Bxd6 (Fritz-Gunsberg, Breslau, 1889) the stem game of this defence. Black is allready better here.
5..., Nxf3 6.gxf3,Qh4+ 7.Qf2,Qxf2 8.Kxf2,Nc6
And now Black is ready to attack white's centre with d6:


A) 9.Be3,d6 10.xd6,Bxd6 (Bronstein -Bernstein, 1954)
B) 9.c3,d6 10.xd6,Bxd6 (Fischer - Wade, 1968)
In both games whites advantage if it is there at all, seem very tiny to me.

is there anything wrong with this move? i've been playing it in blitz a few times and i get stuff like 3.Nc3 d5, which is just the vienna; 3.fxe5 Nxe4; and 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nxe5 Nxe4; and all these seem totally fine for black to me.

it all seems so simple, but there must be some issue with it, or everyone would have been playing it forever, right? it just seems so simple and obvious to me, i don't know why i never considered it before, and why i've never seen it recommended before.