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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?) (Read 23665 times)
brabo
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #21 - 06/10/25 at 12:28:43
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/06/25 at 21:00:09:


1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7 9.f4 b5 10.Bxf6 gxf6 11.Kb1 b4 12.Nce2 Qb6 13.Nxc6 Bxc6 14.f5 e5 15.Ng3

I analyzed last week 15...Qc5 which looks to me a more safe way to equalize. The Filipino international master Jerad Docena plays it regularly.
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #20 - 06/08/25 at 18:54:24
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/06/25 at 21:00:09:
But the engine finds the counterplay. From the first diagram:
30...e4 31.Kc1 Ra5 32.Rh4 Rxa2 33.Rxe4 Ra1+ 34.Kd2 Rh1 35.Rxb4 Rxh5

Agreed. Also 35...Rh2ch is an option. 36. Kc3 (If 36Ke3 Rh3ch not 37Kf4?? when ...Rh4ch wins) Rh3ch 37. Kc4 Rxh5. This too is a draw acording to Stockfish.

Going back one move before your diagram, it seems that black can play e4 before capturing the f pawn: 29. Rh1 e4 30. h5 e3  31. Kc1 e2 32. Re1 Rf5 33. h6 Rh5 34. Re2 Rh6

Playing such lines out, one begins to appreciate the complexity of rook endings.
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #19 - 06/07/25 at 18:52:55
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Another interesting line proceeds:  1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 b5 10. Bf6 gf6  11. f5!?.

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11f5!? is covered by Kanmazalp in his course at modern chess. Kozul does not cover it directly, but transposes to a variation. Black can either try to transpose to other lines with 11...Qb6, or play uniquely with 11...Nxd4 followed by 12...Bh6ch.

After 11...Qb6 12. Nc6 Bc6, white can trade pawns with 13. fe6 fe6. Then 14Kb1 Qc5 15. Bd3!? h5 reaches a position covered by Kanmazalp and Kozul (chapter 8 section 4). Players have alternatives along the way and subsequently. After 16Qe1!? Qe5, 17Nd5!? is a sacrifice that the engine initially considers very strong, then perhaps about equal.

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The other way to proceed is 11... Nd4!? 12. Qd4 Bh6ch 13. Kb1 Bf4 14.fe6!? fe6 15. Ne2 Be5 16. Qd2 (other queen moves may also be possible).

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I like black's centralized bishop, but his position has weaknesses. Kanmazalp analyzes from this position.

I have the impression that 11f5!? is no longer fashionable. However, players of the black pieces must consider it, and player's of the white pieces might choose to look at it as well.
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #18 - 06/06/25 at 22:09:51
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Perhaps if one wants to play the Richter-Rauzer with confidence, one must first master endings! (or use a computer).
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #17 - 06/06/25 at 21:00:09
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FreeRepublic wrote on 06/06/25 at 13:28:21:
Also, perhaps 24....Bc6 is ok after 25. Nf4 Rg4!

Perhaps not.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7 9.f4 b5 10.Bxf6 gxf6 11.Kb1 b4 12.Nce2 Qb6 13.Nxc6 Bxc6 14.f5 e5 15.Ng3 h5 16.h4 Bh6 17.Qxd6 Rd8 18.Qxd8+ Qxd8 19.Rxd8+ Kxd8 20.Bxa6 Rg8 21.Rh3 Bf4 22.Nxh5 Rxg2 23.Rh1 Bxe4 24.Bd3 Bc6 25.Nxf4 Rg4 26.Rd1 Rxf4 27.Bb5+ Kc7 28.Bxc6 Kxc6 29.Rh1 Rxf5 30.h5 

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I don't know if black can draw.

Not
30...Rg5? 31.h6 Rg8 32.h7 Rh8 33.c3 bxc3 34.bxc3

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White is winning.

The point is white's king can blockade the connected passed pawns. But black's king cannot blockade the disconnected ones due to zugzwang. White's tempo moves on the h-file make it inexorable. Even with the white pawn on h6 and black rook on h7 the above diagram should still be a win.
Edited:
Upon reconsideration this might be a draw because the white pawns are only one file apart. Chess is complicated.

But the engine finds the counterplay. From the first diagram:
30...e4 31.Kc1 Ra5 32.Rh4 Rxa2 33.Rxe4 Ra1+ 34.Kd2 Rh1 35.Rxb4 Rxh5

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It's interesting to remove one of black's f-pawns and look at the 7-man tablebase. White is winning then. Here I don't know. I just know I wouldn't want to play this as black.
  
24_Bc6.pgn ( 0 KB | 109 Downloads )
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #16 - 06/06/25 at 13:28:21
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MilenPetrov wrote on 01/29/11 at 12:55:38:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Kb1 b4 12. Nce2 Qb6 13. Nxc6 Bxc6 14. f5 e5 15. Ng3 h5 16. h4 
1) 16...Bh6 17. Qe2 Ke7 18.Nxh5 Qb7! 19.Re1! b3! =

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Thanks for the analysis. White can also play 17. Qd6! Rd8 18. Qd8 Qd8 19. Rd8 Kd8.
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Kozul and Negi (available at Forward Chess) have both reached this position. There are different ways forward, but I think the following is critical:  20.Ba6!? Rg8 21. Rh3 (looks awkard but apparently best) Bf4 22. Nh5 Rg2 23. Rh1 Be4 24. Bd3!?
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Negi reaches this position. He rejects 24...Bc6 and follows 24...Bxd3 eventually concluding that black is fighting for the draw. I agree, but I think black draws! Also, perhaps 24....Bc6 is ok after 25. Nf4 Rg4!

In main lines and sidelines, I get the impression that black will draw in computer assisted correspondence chess. Over the board, I think all three results are possible.
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #15 - 01/29/11 at 22:25:19
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13...Qa7 allows White the extra option of 14.Qe1, whether if it's stronger than 14.Qh3, I am not sure. 

Thanks for your analysis Smiley
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #14 - 01/29/11 at 12:55:38
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Ooooops I am totally bad. I thought you have asked me about 16...Bh6 17.Qe2 line. Sorry about this.
After 16...Qc5 17.Qe2 again 17...Ke7 18.Nxh5 Bb5! as it was published in the Open Sicilian Section for subscribers back in May 2009 (my own analysis approved by Richard). 
So to summarize:
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Kb1 b4 12. Nce2 Qb6 13. Nxc6 Bxc6 14. f5 e5 15. Ng3 h5 16. h4 
1) 16...Bh6 17. Qe2 Ke7 18.Nxh5 Qb7! 19.Re1! b3! =
2) 16...Qc5 17.Qe2 Ke7 18.Nxh5 Bb5! =
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #13 - 01/29/11 at 11:30:51
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clickclick wrote on 01/29/11 at 11:04:55:
Milen, I would hardly think 18...Qb7 deserves a exclamation mark, perhaps you meant 18...Bb7?

Nope, I meant exactly 18...Qb7 and it is the only move which keeps Black in the game. The stem game is Guseinov - Kotronias, Moscow Aeroflot 2005.

clickclick wrote on 01/29/11 at 11:04:55:

ps. Although I highly recommend Pavlovic's Cutting Edge work, there is a serious omission in that after, 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 Bd7 9.f4 b5 10.Bxf6 gf 11.Nxc6 Bxc6 12.Qe3 Qe7 13.Bd3, he does not mention 13...b4! (instead, only 13...Qa7 is covered).
Also, how do you add a diagram? Undecided

I have some notes about 13...b4 in my files and at the time I looked at these lines I thought it simply transposes after 14.Ne2 Qa7 15.Qh3 into the line 13...Qa7 14.Qh3 b4 15.Ne2. The stem game there is Nevednichy - Kozul, Ljubljana 1999. But again I did not looked at these lines seriously as I do not play 11...Qb6 at all.
About how to insert a diagram - look at this thread http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1199562081/0#0
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #12 - 01/29/11 at 11:04:55
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Milen, I would hardly think 18...Qb7 deserves a exclamation mark, perhaps you meant 18...Bb7?

ps. Although I highly recommend Pavlovic's Cutting Edge work, there is a serious omission in that after, 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 Bd7 9.f4 b5 10.Bxf6 gf 11.Nxc6 Bxc6 12.Qe3 Qe7 13.Bd3, he does not mention 13...b4! (instead, only 13...Qa7 is covered).

Also, how do you add a diagram? Undecided
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #11 - 01/29/11 at 10:49:44
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Pavlovic dismisses 13.f5 as 'a serious alternative' without analyzing any further if my memory serves me right.
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #10 - 01/29/11 at 10:07:58
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Klick wrote on 01/29/11 at 06:20:46:

Whats your assessment of 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Kb1 b4 12. Nce2 Qb6 13. Nxc6 Bxc6 14. f5 e5 15. Ng3 h5 16. h4 Qc5 17. Qe2 MilenPetrov?

According to my deep analysis it is equal after 17...Ke7 18.Nxh5 Qb7! 19.Re1! b3!. I am sorry but I can not reveal more. Even in some lines Black gets the initiative.

Klick wrote on 01/29/11 at 06:20:46:

As to 13.f5, Qc5 looks like a good  move, what does Pavlovic say here?

I do not know (and do not care) what he says because after 13...e5 I simply reach my main line. Of course this is valid if you ask about 13.f5 in my move order.
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #9 - 01/29/11 at 06:20:46
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Sorry for not getting your moves right people.
Whats your assessment of 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Kb1 b4 12. Nce2 Qb6 13. Nxc6 Bxc6 14. f5 e5 15. Ng3 h5 16. h4 Qc5 17. Qe2 MilenPetrov?

As to 13.f5, Qc5 looks like a good  move, what does Pavlovic say here?
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #8 - 01/26/11 at 21:38:46
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MilenPetrov wrote on 01/25/11 at 08:27:38:
Instead of 11...Qb6 i always play first 11...b4 and only then Qb6. Why? Simply to avoid White's plan with Qe1 which according to Pavlovic (Cutting Edge 1) gives White better chances. From the other side it simply transposes after 12. Nce2 Qb6 13.Nxc6 Bxc6 14.f5 e5 15.Ng3 h5.
Thus I also avoid Bd3 lines which I think give White better chances.
After 15...h5 (15...a5 is worse) 16.h4 Black can choose between 16...Qc5 and 16.Bh6.

Well, hats off for your findings. You have already proven your lines to work in corr chess! (If my databases informed me correctly.) I was only spending some thoughts on Khalifman's lines with the idea in mind to make the black lines work for me for some entertaining rapid games. OK, but now I'm getting more and more the impression that all these lines are maybe best played at corr chess with a serious analysis and strong engine in the background. After all, only strong and concrete piece play can help Black to overcome the structural problems one might face otherwise. -- Thx MilenPetrov, and good luck for your corr games! I'm still not sure whether I could cope with these challenges over the board.
  
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Re: Critical Position in Kozul Suicide (?)
Reply #7 - 01/26/11 at 08:57:50
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Yes, you are right, I thought it was 13.Qe1. But without blacks queen on b6 any Nd5 doesnt come with the usual punch. In my notes I thought that Nijboers 12..h5 13.Kb1 Qa5 14.Bd3 0-0-0 was sensible.
  
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