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Poll closed Question: NEW POLL! Who will win the Candidates?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Boris Gelfand    
  6 (17.1%)
Gata Kamsky    
  5 (14.3%)
Vladimir Kramnik    
  21 (60.0%)
Alexander Grischuk    
  3 (8.6%)




Total votes: 35
« Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 05/11/11 at 02:56:26 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 (Read 102636 times)
Fromper
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #13 - 02/09/11 at 06:22:31
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The brackets weren't "manipulated". The loser of the last match against Anand is the automatic top seed. After that, seeding was done by rating, based on the January 2010 ratings. Pairings were done the standard way for any 8 player elimination tournament, and yes, that means that the top seed (Topalov) gets the easiest early pairings. The whole thing seems very transparent and fair, if the pairing methods were published before the players involved were even known. (Anyone know if that's true?)

  

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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #12 - 02/09/11 at 01:52:05
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Excuse me, but does it seem to anyone that the brackets have been manipulated to give Topalov a somewhat easier ride to the finals than his rivals YET AGAIN?  It also seems to me that Kramnik-Aronian by rights ought to be a possible final. However, there may be a more innocent explanation: the organizers may have felt that Kramnik-Topalov would top that for sheer venom (oops, I mean drama).

I personally will be rooting for Kramnik to recapture the crown, but I have a feeling that Aronian may break through.
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #11 - 02/09/11 at 00:03:37
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Matemax wrote on 02/08/11 at 06:43:07:
trw wrote on 02/08/11 at 03:03:14:

99-1 on Gelfand vs Mamedyarov

Well - 10 Euros/Dollars on Mamedyarov then - if you place your 990 please  Grin



Obviously not, its high risk and low reward. So I would be looking for the reverse if I was going to be  money. Low risk and high reward.

Gelfand is a seasoned veteran. Mamedyarov is a joke of a loud mouth.
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #10 - 02/08/11 at 06:43:07
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trw wrote on 02/08/11 at 03:03:14:

99-1 on Gelfand vs Mamedyarov

Well - 10 Euros/Dollars on Mamedyarov then - if you place your 990 please  Grin
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #9 - 02/08/11 at 03:44:48
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Radjabov is a really interesting player to follow. He's had Black more often than just about anyone else in the top 25 in recent years yet he has maintained his high ratings. I don't see him beating Kramnik in a match, but it will still be interesting. 

The Aronian-Grischuk match should also be interesting. Aronian has a nice plus score against Grischuk, and his style is well-suited to match play. But Grischuk can be dangerous.

I think the match most likely to produce a first-round upset is Gelfand-Mamedyarov.
My off-the-cuff odds are:

Topalov-Kamsky 65-35
Gelfand-Mamedyarov 51-49 

Mamedyarov scores well against Gelfand. I don't know why trw doesn't respect Mamedyarov.

Kramnik-Radjabov 70-30
Aronian-Grischuk 55-45

Semis (Based on the info provided)

Topalov-Gelfand(?) 60-40 

I'd love to see an upset here, but Gelfand doesn't do very well against Toppy. The only thing going for Gelfand is that they haven't played much recently. 

Kramnik-Aronian 52-48 This will be the best match of the entire candidates. I still prefer Kramnik, but this will be tough.

Kramnik-Topalov 55-45 (If Aronian makes it, the odds will still be against Topalov.)
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #8 - 02/08/11 at 03:03:14
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Matemax wrote on 02/07/11 at 21:23:13:
micawber wrote on 02/07/11 at 19:18:48:
Candidate matches.
The pairings for the candidate matches 2011 have been anounced, to decide who may challenge Anand in 2012.
Of course we greatly miss Magnus Carlsen.
Otherwise there are some questions of course if this is the strongest field possible.
Topalov-Kamsky
Gelfand-Mamedaryov
Kramnik-Radjobov
Aronian-Grischuk

My prediction would be that a final Kramnik-Aronian is most likely, with Gelfand as a dangerous outsider.
Kramnik is a skilled rapid player  which may come in handy,given that after 4 normal games, the next four are rapid.
In the Tata  he showed good form despite his loss against Carlsen (will he be happy that Radjobov is his opponent and not mr.C).

Topalov - Kamsky 60/40 (Kamsky seems to be a bit lazy with prep)
Gelfand - Mamedyarov 50/50 (experience vs creativity - anything can happen)
Kramnik - Radjabov 40/60 (The KingsIndian will do the job for Radja!)
Aronian - Grischuk 60/40 (Aronian seems to be unbeatable)



I'll take 
55-45 on Topalov vs Kamsky
65-35 on Kramnik vs  Radjabov
99-1 on Gelfand vs Mamedyarov
60-40 on Aronian vs Grischuk

Anyone explain why they REdid the pairings? I mean Carlsen was supposed to just be replaced by Grischuk not have the pairings redone.
It should have been
Kramnik-Mamedyarov
Topalov-Kamsky
Gelfand-Aronian
Radjabov-Grischuk
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #7 - 02/08/11 at 02:20:14
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The brackets are posted on the Wikipedia page, and they explain how the seeding was done. Apparently, Topalov was automatically first seed for making it to the final match last year, and it's by January 2010 ratings after that. So Kamsky is 8th seed. Pairing are 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, etc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2012

They site chessbase.com as their source, which confirms the brackets: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7000

First bracket

Topalov (BUL) - Kamsky (USA)
Gelfand (ISR) - Mamedyarov (AZE)

Second Bracket

Kramnik (RUS) - Radjabov (AZE)
Aronian (ARM) - Grischuk (RUS)

Should be exciting. I have to cheer for my countryman, but I don't really expect Kamsky to beat Topalov.
  

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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #6 - 02/07/11 at 22:36:32
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Is a final Kramnik-Aronian possible?

I may be wrong, but
it is my understanding that the winners in the groups play play cross semi-finals, and that 
the winner of Topalov-Kamsky is paired against the winner of Aronian-Grischuk.
the winner of Kramnik-Radjobov is paired against the winner of Gelfand-Mamedaryov.
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #5 - 02/07/11 at 22:02:52
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Quote:
don't forget topalov, he had a phase of depression after losing to anand, and now he might make a comeback.


Yes, I know marriage does do that to a player but calling it "a phase of depression"?  Grin
  

Another wonderful chess link you should visit http://www.chesspublishing.com Smiley
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #4 - 02/07/11 at 21:23:13
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micawber wrote on 02/07/11 at 19:18:48:
Candidate matches.
The pairings for the candidate matches 2011 have been anounced, to decide who may challenge Anand in 2012.
Of course we greatly miss Magnus Carlsen.
Otherwise there are some questions of course if this is the strongest field possible.
Topalov-Kamsky
Gelfand-Mamedaryov
Kramnik-Radjobov
Aronian-Grischuk

My prediction would be that a final Kramnik-Aronian is most likely, with Gelfand as a dangerous outsider.
Kramnik is a skilled rapid player  which may come in handy,given that after 4 normal games, the next four are rapid.
In the Tata  he showed good form despite his loss against Carlsen (will he be happy that Radjobov is his opponent and not mr.C).

Topalov - Kamsky 60/40 (Kamsky seems to be a bit lazy with prep)
Gelfand - Mamedyarov 50/50 (experience vs creativity - anything can happen)
Kramnik - Radjabov 40/60 (The KingsIndian will do the job for Radja!)
Aronian - Grischuk 60/40 (Aronian seems to be unbeatable)
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #3 - 02/07/11 at 21:05:02
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How did Topalov-Kamsky happen again? Who decides on this pairings? Somebody close to Topalov I bet.
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #2 - 02/07/11 at 20:28:30
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micawber wrote on 02/07/11 at 19:18:48:

My prediction would be that a final Kramnik-Aronian is most likely...


If I understand this correctly this is impossible. They both play in the same "group" and the final qualifying stage will be played between the winners of each group. It will be a key match though...

My predictions:
Topalov-Kamsky
Gelfand-Mamedaryov
Kramnik-Radjabov
Aronian-Grischuk

Then:
Topalov-Gelfand
Kramnik-Aronian

"Final":
Gelfand-Kramnik
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #1 - 02/07/11 at 19:44:42
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don't forget topalov, he had a phase of depression after losing to anand, and now he might make a comeback.
  
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micawber
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Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
02/07/11 at 19:18:48
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Candidate matches.
The pairings for the candidate matches 2011 have been anounced, to decide who may challenge Anand in 2012.
Of course we greatly miss Magnus Carlsen.
Otherwise there are some questions of course if this is the strongest field possible.
Topalov-Kamsky
Gelfand-Mamedaryov
Kramnik-Radjobov
Aronian-Grischuk

My prediction would be that a final Kramnik-Aronian is most likely, with Gelfand as a dangerous outsider.
Kramnik is a skilled rapid player  which may come in handy,given that after 4 normal games, the next four are rapid.
In the Tata  he showed good form despite his loss against Carlsen (will he be happy that Radjobov is his opponent and not mr.C).
  
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