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Poll closed Question: NEW POLL! Who will win the Candidates?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Boris Gelfand    
  6 (17.1%)
Gata Kamsky    
  5 (14.3%)
Vladimir Kramnik    
  21 (60.0%)
Alexander Grischuk    
  3 (8.6%)




Total votes: 35
« Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 05/11/11 at 02:56:26 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 (Read 102621 times)
MNb
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #208 - 05/24/11 at 01:13:18
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trw wrote on 05/24/11 at 01:02:08:
Why can't they just play rapid pairs until you have a champion (less like lotto this way).

Why couldn't they play rapid games only? Say four on a day for four days?
  

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BPaulsen
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #207 - 05/24/11 at 01:08:51
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trw wrote on 05/24/11 at 01:02:08:

That is certainly not fair or true, Kamsky showed he came to fight. He tried. Even Gelfand to some extent (until these last two short draws...) He fought long hard draws with Kamsky. Gelfand played the Najdorf twice (beautiful win against Mamedyarov...) and he could have scored a second win there too in rd4 (gave a pity draw instead).


Fine, Kamsky too. The only one I saw trying to actively level their opponents with novelties in the opening was Topalov, regardless of the sour results he achieved. The most entertaining match was Topalov-Kamsky, and it's been downhill since.

I'm not against draws. I'm against not playing the games. As you've noticed, Grischuk is making a mockery of the entire format.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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trw
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #206 - 05/24/11 at 01:02:08
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BPaulsen wrote on 05/24/11 at 00:49:58:
This whole process has been a farce, and an embarrassment to the game. I can hardly think of such lousy fighting spirit dating back to any candidates matches, and this is only rivalled to some extent by the marathon K-K match where some games functioned as rest days of sorts. The K-K match had an excuse given there was a specific number of games won necessary, this one frankly doesn't.

Severely disappointed. And looking at the openings they don't even appear to be trying to spring anything of note. Only Topalov came out guns ablazing in this tournament to some degree, and he got eliminated early on. What a travesty.


That is certainly not fair or true, Kamsky showed he came to fight. He tried. Even Gelfand to some extent (until these last two short draws...) He fought long hard draws with Kamsky. Gelfand played the Najdorf twice (beautiful win against Mamedyarov...) and he could have scored a second win there too in rd4 (gave a pity draw instead).

However, lets say what 12 of the 26 draws have been fights? This is not even 50% (46.2%) of the draws being worth looking at... 2/28 classical games 92.9% draw rate... and quite frankly I'm the last person to criticize draws! I am not against draws. A draw is a natural result of a hard played game. However, as GM Hammer put it.... there is a difference between a hard played game and a game that neither side played. We seeing alot more of latter than the former here.

How exactly does Sofia rules solve anything? I mean if the players want to draw they will draw. The sofia rules still allow for repetition. Sure it makes sense to ban the draw offer though that way its not as clear to each player that they both want to draw. The answer I think has already been said... it lies in longer matches. This way they know the result will come in the classical part almost 99%

The real culprit is Grischuk... he had 8! draws under 30 moves. 6 of those draws were under 20 moves... and 1 was even under 10! He hasn't won a classical game either on his way to the classical world champion challenger....

Can someone tell me why Blitz/Armageddon are required at all? Why can't they just play rapid pairs until you have a champion (less like lotto this way).
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #205 - 05/24/11 at 00:49:58
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This whole process has been a farce, and an embarrassment to the game. I can hardly think of such lousy fighting spirit dating back to any candidates matches, and this is only rivalled to some extent by the marathon K-K match where some games functioned as rest days of sorts. The K-K match had an excuse given there was a specific number of games won necessary, this one frankly doesn't.

Severely disappointed. And looking at the openings they don't even appear to be trying to spring anything of note. Only Topalov came out guns ablazing in this tournament to some degree, and he got eliminated early on. What a travesty.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #204 - 05/23/11 at 23:52:51
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Hear hear, Phil!

I don't mind the tie-breaks they have. They're far better than when Smyslov advanced in 1983. But the tie-breaks should be used to break a tie in serious match. 8-10 games should be sufficient. Perhaps Gelfand-Grischuk would go to the tie-breaks anyway, but Aronian or Kramnik would eventually have broken through in regulation. 

These four game matches just don't cut it.
  
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Phil Adams
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #203 - 05/23/11 at 21:23:57
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 05/23/11 at 15:26:54:
I've barely been following this event.


The format of short matches, with faster and faster tie-breaks, was presumably devised to
a) save FIDE money;
b) make chess more "mass media friendly".

Since on point (b) it's a huge failure (again), I suggest FIDE should return to "classical chess" methods of deciding the challenger for the World Championship, based on long-play games in a match of reasonable length. Then we genuine chess fans might get to see more and better chess being played, in what should be the most prestigious event in the FIDE calendar, apart from the final Championship match itself.
« Last Edit: 05/24/11 at 00:08:45 by Phil Adams »  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #202 - 05/23/11 at 21:01:16
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It's a pity they don't play the positions they are getting to the end. I doubt the score would be all draws then. 
Sophia rules should be in place imo. I think sponsors pay for interesting games and attitude of players who don't want to play equal positions is just insulting to them and very discouraging for the future.
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #201 - 05/23/11 at 19:37:31
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Good luck finding any sponsors for an Anand/??? match now. Methinks either Kirsan will finance the whole thing or maybe if Grischuk wins Gazprom might chip in a rouble or two.
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #200 - 05/23/11 at 18:30:53
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 05/23/11 at 15:26:54:
I've barely been following this event.

Me neither, what happened to this competition, where has all the excitement gone? Maybe we need another 'toiletgate'?! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #199 - 05/23/11 at 15:41:11
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Frankly with Kamsky gone my interest went to Zilch too.
  
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #198 - 05/23/11 at 15:27:58
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not had much interest in it myself either
  
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Seth_Xoma
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #197 - 05/23/11 at 15:26:54
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I've barely been following this event.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #196 - 05/23/11 at 14:52:32
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This 18 move draw with Gelfand as White after a day off is the most disappointing of the match. Gelfand had numerous opportunities to play for an advantage and instead seemed to go along with the narrative that has been building. "The format is to blame."

At some point both players will need to fight for the win. I know, Grischuk is fearsome as Black in games with loads of dynamic counterplay. But at some point you have to take that chance.
  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #195 - 05/22/11 at 19:56:39
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It would be unfortunate if Grischuk got to face Anand having never won a game in normal time control and if he won 2 matches at 5 minute chess !! That's how it's looking to me . Somebody needs to allow the Nimzo
  
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MNb
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Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012
Reply #194 - 05/21/11 at 20:38:37
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Maybe Gelfand should have been the one to play on? Two active Bishops for a pawn should have given him an opportunity to torture Grischuk a bit.
Once again we must regret that the matches are so short. Gelfand must have thought the risk too high indeed.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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