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Question: NEW POLL! Who will win the Candidates?


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Boris Gelfand 6 (17.1%) Gata Kamsky 5 (14.3%) Vladimir Kramnik 21 (60.0%) Alexander Grischuk 3 (8.6%) Total votes: 35 « Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 05/11/11 at 02:56:26 »

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Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 (Read 102627 times)

Fromper Senior Member Offline GrandPatzer Posts: 378 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Joined: 03/12/10 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #238 - 05/25/11 at 18:01:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	I had an interesting thought. The final will be India vs Israel, which are both Asian countries. Will this be the first time that the continent of Europe hasn't been represented in the final World Championship match? Of course, the Soviet Union spread across both Europe and Asia, so I'd count all the Soviets who played in matches in the 20th century as representing both continents, so Europe wasn't left out like it is this year.

	GrandPatzer!!! 1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #237 - 05/25/11 at 18:00:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	I guess more to the point people's anger at this system stems from a few core issues 1) Fide's terrible format and corruption issues in constantly changing the LIVE cycle 2) Their favorites didn't win. 3) (related) but patriotic claims 4) (related as well) The Young generation isn't dominating yet wah wah I want the old to lose wah wah. Seriously, it's chess. Enjoy good games and good matches -> this is where we have a RIGHT to be upset. How many games never even got played in this whole cycle (cough Grischuk cough). My favorites didn't win either... I wanted Kamsky or Aronian or Kramnik. But Gelfand won. It's a fact.


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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #236 - 05/25/11 at 17:50:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	akita wrote on 05/25/11 at 16:43:18: Hi all Well done to Gelfand. Is he in the top 10 players? Gelfand is a very strong player but you have to say not in the same class as Topolov, Anand, Carlsen, Aronian and Kramnik. However, the system operated by FIDE favours outsiders who get a bit lucky. I am not saying that Gelfand was lucky in fact he probably deserved to be the challenger in the end but will sponsers really be interested in such a match outside of Israel or India? The whole Candidates series can best be described as "hopeless" What an advert for our game. Well done FIDE! Basically if you are going to have matches to find a challenger make them at least 12 games in duration. That way the better player should come out on top. I don't wish to detract from Gelfand's acheivement after all what else could he do? The question I ask is will the World's best player (MC) want to play in this farce at the next cycle. I can also see several of the top players no bothering also having dipped their toe into the murky waters of a couple of Classical games and then a few rapid games and "hey I am challenging the World Champ! As for the match Anand-Gelfand. Anand is a class above Gelfand and should win a 12 games match say 6.5-4 or better. His only problem could be motivation! Akita. I think this whole post is ridiculous. I have a feeling you are from India. Is Anand a slight favorite in the match? Definitely. But 6.5-4? Unlikely. More like 6.5-5.5 What defines this class that is 'Topalov, Aronian, Kramnik, Carlsen' and never ever ever ever anybody else? Absurd. Gelfand won. Topalov didn't. Aronian didn't. Kramnik didn't. Carlsen couldn't even be bothered to show up! (What class!). Gelfand has been a regular fixture in the top 10 for over 20 years. More to the point what requirement is there that a player has to be in the top10 to be worth a damn? Kasparov himself once thought Gelfand had future world champion potential. If you read Gelfand's best game book then I think you will come to appreciate Gelfand a little more. Maybe then you will stop speaking down to him.


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akita Junior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 93 Joined: 03/06/06	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #235 - 05/25/11 at 16:43:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hi all Well done to Gelfand. Is he in the top 10 players? Gelfand is a very strong player but you have to say not in the same class as Topolov, Anand, Carlsen, Aronian and Kramnik. However, the system operated by FIDE favours outsiders who get a bit lucky. I am not saying that Gelfand was lucky in fact he probably deserved to be the challenger in the end but will sponsers really be interested in such a match outside of Israel or India? The whole Candidates series can best be described as "hopeless" What an advert for our game. Well done FIDE! Basically if you are going to have matches to find a challenger make them at least 12 games in duration. That way the better player should come out on top. I don't wish to detract from Gelfand's acheivement after all what else could he do? The question I ask is will the World's best player (MC) want to play in this farce at the next cycle. I can also see several of the top players no bothering also having dipped their toe into the murky waters of a couple of Classical games and then a few rapid games and "hey I am challenging the World Champ! As for the match Anand-Gelfand. Anand is a class above Gelfand and should win a 12 games match say 6.5-4 or better. His only problem could be motivation! Akita.


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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #234 - 05/25/11 at 16:38:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	If there were 12 short draws, it would be very disappointing. But if the match is drawn after 8 exciting and 4 boring games, then by all means, bring on the tie-breaks! The Candidates should have been 6 and 8 games long respectively, at a bare minimum. 12 games should be sufficient to separate two almost equal opponents. I'm glad Gelfand won. The 2012 match should be great entertainment. I'm definitely rooting for Anand to retain his title though, and survive to defend against the next generation of players in 2015.


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Fromper Senior Member Offline GrandPatzer Posts: 378 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Joined: 03/12/10 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #233 - 05/25/11 at 16:32:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	nimzo5 wrote on 05/25/11 at 16:15:35: Would anyone consider Gelfand a legitimate WC (i.e. Kasparov, Karpov etc.) if he beat Anand in a 12 game match? Yes, if it was 12 slow games. If it goes to blitz/armageddon tiebreaks, I'll walk away in disgust.

	GrandPatzer!!! 1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #232 - 05/25/11 at 16:26:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	yes.


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nimzo5 Junior Member Offline d4! Posts: 92 Location: USA Joined: 09/06/09 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #231 - 05/25/11 at 16:15:35	Post Tools	Print Post
	Would anyone consider Gelfand a legitimate WC (i.e. Kasparov, Karpov etc.) if he beat Anand in a 12 game match?

	1950 Fide - 2050 if you omit Sunday Morning first rounds
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bragesjo God Member Offline CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM at ICCF 2023 Posts: 1839 Location: Eskilstuna Joined: 06/30/06 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #230 - 05/25/11 at 15:37:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	For once in these matches, white won and Gelfand did it. However, I hope that Anand keeps hes title when he faces Gelfand. Does anyone here know when that match will be played?


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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #229 - 05/25/11 at 14:57:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	I see no reason why Anand should be pleased... unless its because the jew/israel factor ensures there will be money. However, white finally won a game too!


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MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2110 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #228 - 05/25/11 at 14:56:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	Nice that it was decided in a proper game, and that Grischuk didn't quite make it with those tactics.


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TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #227 - 05/25/11 at 14:54:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	Gelfand wins game 6 and with it the match. Though Gelfand is no pushover, I can imagine that Anand would be pleased.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Antillian God Member Offline Brilliance without dazzle! Posts: 1757 Joined: 01/05/03 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #226 - 05/24/11 at 22:46:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 05/24/11 at 20:21:47: akita wrote on 05/24/11 at 10:03:51: If FIDE wants to improve and save money on such tournaments just hold an 8 player event (14 round) winner to challenge the World Champion. Checkers/Draughts (on 100 squares) had a system like that. Every four years a nice long match between the two strongest players and in between two matches a tournament like this with the WCh participating, also with the title at stake. Of course FIDE in the fifties had a system like you described. It was a certain American who demanded matches to determine the challenger too. Before this fiasco, I routed strongly for short matches as being inherently superior to tournaments. But now, I truly wonder. Maybe Calsen had a point after all and maybe a double round robin would have been better. In do wonder though what would make a double round robin world championship qualifier distinctive, say compared to other double round robin elite events like Linares? A world championship qualifier should surely be different to a regular super tournament apart that having a different name, larger prize fund and a more consequential outcome.

	"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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trw YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1414 Joined: 05/06/08 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #225 - 05/24/11 at 20:31:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 05/24/11 at 20:21:47: PS: if your post contains an error you can use the Modify button. If it doesn't show, log out and log in again; it will show up. You can also just click update session at the top too (instead of logging in and out).


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10776 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Candidate matches 2011 for WC 2012 Reply #224 - 05/24/11 at 20:21:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	akita wrote on 05/24/11 at 10:03:51: If FIDE wants to improve and save money on such tournaments just hold an 8 player event (14 round) winner to challenge the World Champion. Checkers/Draughts (on 100 squares) had a system like that. Every four years a nice long match between the two strongest players and in between two matches a tournament like this with the WCh participating, also with the title at stake. Of course FIDE in the fifties had a system like you described. It was a certain American who demanded matches to determine the challenger too. PS: if your post contains an error you can use the Modify button. If it doesn't show, log out and log in again; it will show up.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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