Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why do you allow the Ruy? (Read 21036 times)
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 916
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #38 - 03/28/11 at 20:23:03
Post Tools
The book's title is "Slay the Spanish", though (despite having become attracted to the risky attacking lines of the Modern Steinitz recently) I haven't bought it as I was unimpressed by the preview material.

I don't know a lot about the Bird Defence but Michael Goeller has some stuff here:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2008/11/birds-defense-bibliogra...
I must say that he makes a pretty strong case for it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #37 - 03/28/11 at 16:55:34
Post Tools
Sokolov's "Ruy Lopez Revisited" has a chapter on the Bird. 
  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #36 - 03/27/11 at 00:18:12
Post Tools
trw wrote on 03/26/11 at 22:03:28:
Hadron wrote on 03/26/11 at 21:52:27:
trw wrote on 03/26/11 at 07:47:53:
To be honest I believe the Birds opening in the Ruy is majorly underrated as well. I played about 40 thematic games of it in correspondence and it came out okay overall. But i've never tried it out otb.

Matey, I don't think I have ever come accross a decent book on the Bird's yet
HTH
Nu Zooland...(Go kiwi!!)


me neither, perhaps a subject for another thread, but strong plays dismiss it so quickly without analysis that it rarely gets a good treatment. Tbh, the only game that seems to make its way into books on the birds is the flashy game Anderssen vs Max Lange 1859. Given the opening's relative unpopularity though I can't see it selling well. But in correspondence, I was surprised how early the novelties came in nearly every single game.


Tim Taylor recently published a book on the Modern Steinitz, called 'Slow the Spanish'.

I can't see why Everyman would reject a repertoire book on the Bird titled 'Make a Bird of the Spanish'  Grin

To be honest I think the Bird is a respectable defence, but it's not for players who highly value equalising out of the opening.  Wink
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1414
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #35 - 03/26/11 at 22:03:28
Post Tools
Hadron wrote on 03/26/11 at 21:52:27:
trw wrote on 03/26/11 at 07:47:53:
To be honest I believe the Birds opening in the Ruy is majorly underrated as well. I played about 40 thematic games of it in correspondence and it came out okay overall. But i've never tried it out otb.

Matey, I don't think I have ever come accross a decent book on the Bird's yet
HTH
Nu Zooland...(Go kiwi!!)


me neither, perhaps a subject for another thread, but strong plays dismiss it so quickly without analysis that it rarely gets a good treatment. Tbh, the only game that seems to make its way into books on the birds is the flashy game Anderssen vs Max Lange 1859. Given the opening's relative unpopularity though I can't see it selling well. But in correspondence, I was surprised how early the novelties came in nearly every single game.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #34 - 03/26/11 at 21:52:27
Post Tools
trw wrote on 03/26/11 at 07:47:53:
To be honest I believe the Birds opening in the Ruy is majorly underrated as well. I played about 40 thematic games of it in correspondence and it came out okay overall. But i've never tried it out otb.

Matey, I don't think I have ever come accross a decent book on the Bird's yet
HTH
Nu Zooland...(Go kiwi!!)
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1414
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #33 - 03/26/11 at 07:47:53
Post Tools
To be honest I believe the Birds opening in the Ruy is majorly underrated as well. I played about 40 thematic games of it in correspondence and it came out okay overall. But i've never tried it out otb.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hadron
Full Member
***
Offline


Doctor, Doctor, Doctor..When
will you ever learn?

Posts: 195
Location: Levin, New Zealand.
Joined: 03/24/05
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #32 - 03/26/11 at 01:38:54
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 03/25/11 at 11:26:59:
I don't understand how one avoids the Spanish after 1...e5 unless he plays the Petroff, the Philidor or the Latvian.  Maybe you mean, avoid the Closed Spanish.  Personally I'd recommend either the Open Defense or one of the Moeller/Archangel hybrids.  My confidence in the Berlin Classical has been undermined by 5.Nxe4 improvements.  The Marshall, unfortunately, almost never appears on the board at lower levels of play.

All this jibber jabber about avoiding openings, it is not like the Lopez is some sort of one dimension trick unsound GAMBIT opening so why would you want to go out of your way to deliberate avoid opening which has more than enough attacking complexities for Black as there are for white. Like I said earlier I don't see the logic in playing a6, the exchange system should not be ruled out lightly for obvious reasons. I think Bird's 3...Nd4 is quite under rated. I personally like Alapin's 3...Bb4 which is labelled as crap by most books but most of them fail to mention a significant improvements given by Alapin himself. I don't beleive I am going to say this, I agree with Markovich, if you have some confidence after 3...a6 and 4.Bxc6 then the Open Lopez is the way to go (and if you really like blood then look at Dilworths attack!)
HTH
Smiley
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #31 - 03/25/11 at 11:26:59
Post Tools
I don't understand how one avoids the Spanish after 1...e5 unless he plays the Petroff, the Philidor or the Latvian.  Maybe you mean, avoid the Closed Spanish.  Personally I'd recommend either the Open Defense or one of the Moeller/Archangel hybrids.  My confidence in the Berlin Classical has been undermined by 5.Nxe4 improvements.  The Marshall, unfortunately, almost never appears on the board at lower levels of play.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1414
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #30 - 03/24/11 at 22:24:43
Post Tools
Quote:
now about e5 ..., I agree black should not allow the spanish, it's like the QGD too complex ... I think the Schliemann might be about right ....

1- Markovich would never agree with you that black should avoid the spanish.
2- the schliemann IS the spanish.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 647
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #29 - 03/24/11 at 18:20:11
Post Tools
And 3... a6 has been called the Morphy-Defence....  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #28 - 03/24/11 at 14:48:18
Post Tools
Quote:
but, e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 Nf6 is the Berlin Wall?

Quote:
Well 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 is in fact the Spanish or Ruy Lopez

Technically, that's the Berlin variation of the Spanish. As Matemax said, 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 is the Spanish. Anything that comes after that are just different variations of the Spanish.
  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
battleangel
Ex Member
*



Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #27 - 03/24/11 at 14:37:22
Post Tools
but, e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 Nf6 is the Berlin Wall?
imho we reach the ruy when black plays a6

Quote:
Well 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 is in fact the Spanish or Ruy Lopez
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #26 - 03/24/11 at 13:45:23
Post Tools
Quote:
I agree black should not allow the spanish, it's like the QGD too complex ... I think the Schliemann might be about right ....

Well 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 is in fact the Spanish or Ruy Lopez

If you are inexpierenced as Black you should probably avoid the CLOSED Ruy Lopez - but as you mentioned there a lots of possibilities before starting with the Schliemmann.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
battleangel
Ex Member
*



Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #25 - 03/24/11 at 13:41:10
Post Tools
... e5 is actually the best answer to 1.e4 ... on 2700+ level ... having thought a bit about beginner's chess, I come to the conclusion Markovich is not wrong stating that tarrasch is a good against 1.d4, because most of the openingstructures are very open, and for the isolated pawn black has compensation in activity ...
now about e5 ..., I agree black should not allow the spanish, it's like the QGD too complex ... I think the Schliemann might be about right ....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1512
Location: East of the river Svartån
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: Why do you allow the Ruy?
Reply #24 - 03/24/11 at 10:15:39
Post Tools
I recall reading Ignacio Marin's chess page in the nineties. (No relation to Mihail, I think.) I found it via the web archive. http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20030604184615/http://cmgm.stanford.edu/~marin/...

In his post "Best against 1.e4" http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20030202024712/http://cmgm.stanford.edu/~marin/... he states 

"1...e5. I definitively don't like this. After the most obvious answer, the Spanish, the game tend to be complicated but in general with a persistent white advantage. Please note that 1...e5 has been used by all the LOSERS of world championship matches: it has been one of the main reasons for the defeats of Korchnoi, Karpov, Short and Anand. I think that although in theory black game is perfectly respectable, white play is very comfortable in most lines of the Spanish. Moreover you have to add the Scotch, the clasical Italian/Two knights with d3 and, lately, even the Evans gambit (!). The Russian/Petrov defense can be a solution, but now it is looking good for white. The rest are passive or unsound openings and in general good for white."

Time has moved on a bit from the Kasparov era. I haven't studied any statistics on this, but to me it seems that 1...e5 has become much more popular at top level since Kasparov quit. Top players like Aronian and Kramnik play it regularly.

At club level, I think Giddins discussion about the Spanish main lines in his general repertoire book was good. Once you have the hang of the spanish positions, you can rather easily switch between them. As stated previously, it should be much easier than switching between sicilians.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo