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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?) (Read 23843 times)
Paddy
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #21 - 04/14/11 at 10:00:06
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Alias wrote on 04/14/11 at 07:38:04:
Karpov/Kramnik vs Morphy/Spielmann:

Why is all-out attacks so important? I like Michael Stean's book "Simple Chess" and players playing simple (looking) chess. Is it really so bad playing sound chess putting the pieces on good squares and do the best of the positions without going for attacks all the time?

I know the importance of tactics. Kramnik and Karpov are up for it when necessary.


Here we go again. The forum has seen many such discussions, so let's not start another one here. All I would say is that It depends really whether one subscribes to the theory that the development of the chess player does best to follow, more or less, the lines of the development of the modern game itself (starting with the Morphy era). The best games of he past form the basis of a "good education" in chess. I subscribe to that theory. It pleases me logically, it chimes with my experience as a junior coach, and I happen to believe that there is also much enjoyment to be had that way. We play chess fun, don't we? Wink
  
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MNb
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #20 - 04/14/11 at 09:57:17
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Karpov not only when necessary, I'd say. Moreover his attacking games nicely shows what a good idea it is to put your pieces on good squares when you go for an attack. That's why I maintain that any aspiring attacking player doesn't him/herself justice when neglecting Karpov.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Alias
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #19 - 04/14/11 at 07:38:04
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Karpov/Kramnik vs Morphy/Spielmann:

Why is all-out attacks so important? I like Michael Stean's book "Simple Chess" and players playing simple (looking) chess. Is it really so bad playing sound chess putting the pieces on good squares and do the best of the positions without going for attacks all the time?

I know the importance of tactics. Kramnik and Karpov are up for it when necessary.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
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trw
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #18 - 04/14/11 at 03:33:56
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ErictheRed wrote on 04/13/11 at 23:27:36:
kylemeister wrote on 04/13/11 at 20:51:25:
Yep, it seems that I was confused.  What a ridiculous troll I must be.

Shame on you!

Edit: I didn't see the 2nd page, when this joke had already been made twice!  Sorry...I must be a ridiculous troll as well.



clearly you are the most reeeediculous of all trolls. Wink
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #17 - 04/13/11 at 23:27:36
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kylemeister wrote on 04/13/11 at 20:51:25:
Yep, it seems that I was confused.  What a ridiculous troll I must be.

Shame on you!

Edit: I didn't see the 2nd page, when this joke had already been made twice!  Sorry...I must be a ridiculous troll as well.
  
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MNb
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #16 - 04/13/11 at 21:04:52
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kylemeister wrote on 04/13/11 at 20:51:25:
Yep, it seems that I was confused.  What a ridiculous troll I must be.

Shame on you indeed that you don't know exactly by heart the 10 highest ratings from every single year since Elo introduced his system. Shame on me too.
Fortunately we have Uhohspaghettio who keeps track of all this livesaving facts.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Markovich
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #15 - 04/13/11 at 20:59:49
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That's right, kylemeister.  Some of us are getting mighty tired of your trollsome ways.  And make sure you check your facts next time.  Or else.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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kylemeister
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #14 - 04/13/11 at 20:51:25
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Yep, it seems that I was confused.  What a ridiculous troll I must be.
  
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Uhohspaghettio
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #13 - 04/13/11 at 20:31:39
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You believe wrong. It was in something written by Kasparov himself. 

If there were any more when he got to 2800 first (unlikely), they slid back by the middle of the year so that my statement was not wrong and did not suggest anything wrong... not several people there at the same time all year as your post ridiculously implies.   

(I have decided to delete the link to this website because I know it's a common strategy of trolls to contradict another person in order to receive direct links and explanations without directly asking for them and I don't want to reward that. The website is easy to find.)

Search the 1990 ratings for " 27" (note the space). There are both mid-years and January rankings. Fischer was in the 2700s also but his rating was inactive. In 1991 Ivanchuk joined the 2700s for mid-year rankings, in 1993 Anand joined them. These are mid-year rankings though so people could have hit the 2700s at other times. 
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #12 - 04/13/11 at 20:02:21
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I believe that by the time Kasparov reached 2800+, there were a number of 2700+ players.
  
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Uhohspaghettio
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #11 - 04/13/11 at 19:53:48
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There was a point in time when Karpov was the only person in the world in the 2700s. 

Only problem was, Kasparov was in the 2800s...
  
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Markovich
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #10 - 04/13/11 at 18:43:35
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Paddy wrote on 04/13/11 at 13:19:07:
bicycle wrote on 04/12/11 at 23:44:05:
How do they compare?  Any thoughts on who's games might be more instructive or interesting to examine? 


Depending on your current strength and experience, the best answer could well be: neither, just yet.

If you've never enjoyed the open, attacking chess of the old masters (such as Anderssen, Morphy, Tchigorin, Spielmann), you've not only missed a real treat but omitted an important, some would say vital, phase in your development as a chess player.


The Golden Treasury of Chess has some absolutely remarkable unannotated games in this vein.  That is the first game collection toward which I would point improving young players.
  

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Paddy
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #9 - 04/13/11 at 13:19:07
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bicycle wrote on 04/12/11 at 23:44:05:
How do they compare?  Any thoughts on who's games might be more instructive or interesting to examine? 


Depending on your current strength and experience, the best answer could well be: neither, just yet.

If you've never enjoyed the open, attacking chess of the old masters (such as Anderssen, Morphy, Tchigorin, Spielmann), you've not only missed a real treat but omitted an important, some would say vital, phase in your development as a chess player.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #8 - 04/13/11 at 12:42:57
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Alias wrote on 04/13/11 at 06:49:07:

You can also have a look at what Kramnik thinks of Karpov: http://www.kramnik.com/eng/interviews/getinterview.aspx?id=61


Thanks for the link. This comment on Karpov's weaknesses puzzled me:

Quote:
- I think he did not pay attention to strategy. As I have already told, he easily forgot about the things that had happened on the board. Probably, he did not have a sufficiently deep strategic thread of the play. Karpov is a chess player of a great number of short, two to three move combinations: he transferred his knight, seized the space, weakened a pawn. In my view, he was not a strategic player by nature.


But those kinds of mini-plans are precisely the foundation of strategy, aren't they? Does Kramnik really mean that Karpov is relatively weak at finding longer, deeper plans? That's quite a controversial point of view.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Dink Heckler
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Re: Karpov vs Kramnik for study(?)
Reply #7 - 04/13/11 at 12:12:13
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If Leko had found a few accurate moves in the last game in Brissago, what would he have been? Tenth among equals?  Cheesy
WC doesn't elevate one to the pantheon, it just means you won a match...
  

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