Actually I wanted to vote for Nc6 but it was not there. Preferred Na6 over Nbd7.

kylemeister wrote on 04/23/11 at 05:49:54:


I really don't know if it's inaccurate or not.  My point is that in the past, at least in certain circles, there have been strong players who have considered it at least slightly inaccurate.  If you've known all along that this isn't the case then you're ahead of the game.

kylemeister wrote on 04/22/11 at 15:19:51:


John Cox in Starting Out: 1.d4! writes, "Black sometimes plays 6...Nbd7 here, although this is often thought to be a bit inaccurate."  He then also says 7.Be3 e5 8.d5 Ng4 9.Bd2 f5 10.Ng5 is very dangerous which is why Dembo proposes 7...Ng4!? instead.

Wasn't thinking of avoiding white players out for a draw - thats always a futile exercise Think they'd mostly do something else earlier anyhow - more just checking winning chances vs plausible/normally ambitious play.
(Actually principally wanted to reassure myself wasn't talking nonsense about Nc6 being more unbalanced ).

kylemeister wrote on 04/21/11 at 15:45:01:


It (6...Nbd7) was for many years considered to be an inferior move order.  I'm sure she wasn't the one to rehabilitate it but I mentioned reference as starting point for anyone wanting to employ that move-order.

Actually checked the drawing rates on a database to make sure. (of TWICs and not huge.). ~28% for Nc6 and ~35% for Na6/ed/Nbd7.

Very similar overall scores, so thats the biggest difference. Not a huge one of course, because even the non Nc6 stuff is pretty unbalanced

Matemax wrote on 04/21/11 at 12:04:40:


Why is ...Na6 better against the exchange?

gramsci wrote on 04/21/11 at 09:51:07:


This is an unanswerable question. We have got used to all the uncompromising attacks after 7...Nc6 but what to think of a game like this, where a title candidate gets creamed?

Kortchnoi,V (2695) - Nunn,J (2580) [E94]
Johannesburg (1), 1981

1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 g6 3.e4 d6 4.d4 Bg7 5.Be2 0-0 6.Nf3 Nbd7 7.0-0 e5 8.Qc2 a5 9.Rd1 exd4 10.Nxd4 Nc5 11.Ndb5 Re8 12.Bg5 Bd7 13.f3 Ne6 14.Be3 Nh5 15.Bf1 f5 16.exf5 gxf5 17.Bf2 Rf8 18.g3 Nf6 19.Qxf5 Ng4 20.Qxg4 Ng5 21.Qh5 Be8 22.Qxg5 Qxg5 23.Nxc7 Rxf3 24.Nxa8 Rxf2 25.Kxf2 Qc5+ 26.Kg2 Bxc3 27.Nc7 Bg6 28.Nd5 Be4+ 29.Kh3 Bxb2 30.Rab1 Qf2 31.Rxb2 Qxb2 32.Nf4 Bf5+ 33.g4 Qf2 0-1

Or this, where a feared attacking player learns a lesson the hard way?

Shirov,A (2610) - Glek,I (2530) [E94]
Moskwa-5, 1991

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.Nc3 0-0 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Na6 8.Be3 Ng4 9.Bg5 Qe8 10.h3 h6 11.Bc1 Nf6 12.dxe5 dxe5 13.Be3 Nh5 14.c5 Nf4 15.Bb5 Qe6 16.Qa4 Nxg2 17.Kxg2 Qxh3+ 18.Kg1 Qg4+ 19.Kh2 Qxf3 20.Rh1 c6 21.Be2 Qf6 22.Bxa6 bxa6 23.Rad1 Rb8 24.b3 Bg4 25.Rd6 Qh4+ 26.Kg1 Bh3 27.Rh2 Qg4+ 28.Kh1 Rfd8 29.Qxc6 Bf8 30.Rd5 Qf3+ 31.Kg1 Rbc8 32.Rxh3 Qxh3 33.Qf6 Re8 34.Qxa6 Bxc5 35.Bxc5 Qxc3 36.Be3 Qe1+ 37.Qf1 Qxf1+ 38.Kxf1 Kg7 39.Bxa7 Rc1+ 40.Kg2 Ra8 41.Rd7 Re1 42.Kf3 h5 43.Rb7 Rg1 44.Bb8 Rxb8 0-1

I suppose everything depends on taste and feeling comfortable and such.

No, she doesn´t give an alternative. But this way Black avoids the exchange...

Over the years I have tried all three moves of the Knight plus 7... exd4 all with decent results but my current preferance is 6... Na6 followed by 7... e5. While 7... Nc6 is quite a lot of theory to follow both 7... Nbd7 and 7... exd4 are probably slightly to passive for regular use.

Matemax wrote on 04/21/11 at 12:04:40:


There is 6...Nbd7 which Yelena Dembo argues is playable for Black in the last chapter of Dangerous Weapons: The King's Indian.

But those are all profoundly unbalanced positions where white, even when better, can easily slip up and lose. Its been seen a huge number of times in practice  

Now, if you asked me which 7th move I prefer it wouldn't be 7 .. Nc6. In fact on some level I happen to instinctively agree with Korchnoi that it should be total rubbish and I'd rather play almost anything else! 

But for winning chances? Don't think there's much contest - 7 .. Nc6 is more or less as good as it comes vs rational white play. You just have to accept that some of those wins are going to be 'swindles'.

TonyRo wrote on 04/21/11 at 11:26:37:

Excuse me you're right K=king and N=knight. Iv've just corrected the poll.

Phrasing it in terms of winning chances is a tiny bit odd mind, because whether you like 7 .. Nc6 or not, its certainly much the most unbalanced of the options.

What do you think is the best winning attempt in the classical KID, 7...Na6 or 7...Nbd7?