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Normal Topic 4.Bd3 english defence (Read 13484 times)
BenkoFan
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Re: 4.Bd3 english defence
Reply #7 - 02/09/16 at 10:09:11
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slughouse wrote on 04/25/11 at 11:30:18:
1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 3.e4 Bb7 4.Bd3

4...Nc6 5.Ne2 Nb4 6.Nbc3 Nxd3+ 7.Qxd3 is +=
4...Bb4+ 5.Bd2 is also +=

So, does 4...f5 work? In the main line, 5.exf5 Bxg2 6.Qh5+ g6 7.fxg6 Bg7 etc, is black surviving? It would be great if the tactics worked for black, otherwise it would appear 4.Bd3 takes all the fun out of black's opening.. Also, what is an up-to-date source on this line? Thanks.


4...Nc6 is promising enough for Black. Long term the b7 bishop can be a monster.
« Last Edit: 02/10/16 at 10:07:28 by BenkoFan »  
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Hehmer
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Re: 4.Bd3 english defence
Reply #6 - 04/30/11 at 15:14:09
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11...Nc6 is analysed in Kaissiber 33. It looks like Black is in trouble after 12.c5! when Wind examines 12...Be7, 12...Ne7 and 12...Qh5. His verdict is +/- in all these lines and he almost certainly checked them all with Rybca (probably 3) and maybe other engines too on good hardware. 

Bauer has nothing about this specific line, only one short chapter about 4.Bd3 as sort of a bonus since that line cannot be reached after 1...b6 and 2...Bb7. Odessky has a bit more but nothing constructive. His lament in the chapter "It seems they want to destroy us" ends with this line, but apparently 9...Qe8 (instead of 9...exf5) was latest try when he wrote his book. 


  
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Papageno
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Re: 4.Bd3 english defence
Reply #5 - 04/30/11 at 13:38:11
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Quote:
Kaissiber 33 is the most up-to-date source on 4...f5?! that I'm aware of. Their recommended lines offer only obscure compensation for being a pawn (sometimes more) down though. For example an important line goes: 1. c4 b6 2. d4 e6 3. e4 Bb7 4. Bd3 f5 5. exf5 Bb4+ 6. Kf1 Nf6 7. Nf3 O-O 8. a3 Bd6 9. Nc3 exf5 10. Bxf5 Qe8 11. Be3 Qh5 when White has 12. Ng5 Qxd1+ 13. Rxd1. It's += IMO but compensation according to Kaissiber. 

Looking at this position without any engine I'd expect Black to have just enough compensation since White has forfeited the right to castle. And his extra pawn is just the one to protect his king on the half-open file. In addition the black bishops do not look too bad either.

I haven't had a chance to look into Kaissiber or the Bauer book yet. If 11... Qh5 and 11...g6 do not work out well then what about 11... Nc6 !? (untested as far as I can see). Houdini on my admittedly slow comp doesn't dismiss it immediately, which is encouraging as the Black compensation is likely to be telling in the long run unless I'm expecting too much.

If you can find a clear way to an advantage for White let me know. Also I'm interested to hear whether or not other sources have examined this move 11...Nc6.
  
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Hehmer
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Re: 4.Bd3 english defence
Reply #4 - 04/29/11 at 12:28:12
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Quote:
Kaissiber 33 is the most up-to-date source on 4...f5?! that I'm aware of. Their recommended lines offer only obscure compensation for being a pawn (sometimes more) down though. For example an important line goes: 1. c4 b6 2. d4 e6 3. e4 Bb7 4. Bd3 f5 5. exf5 Bb4+ 6. Kf1 Nf6 7. Nf3 O-O 8. a3 Bd6 9. Nc3 exf5 10. Bxf5 Qe8 11. Be3 Qh5 when White has 12. Ng5 Qxd1+ 13. Rxd1. It's += IMO but compensation according to Kaissiber.


I just had a look at Wind's article in Kaissiber 33 and saw that I got a detail wrong. He rightly gives 11...Qh5 a question mark and recommends 11...g6 instead but admits that all three reasonable moves (12.Bh3, 12.c5, 12.Bc2) lead to a small advantage (+=). 
  
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Hehmer
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Re: 4.Bd3 english defence
Reply #3 - 04/26/11 at 12:50:41
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Kaissiber 33 is the most up-to-date source on 4...f5?! that I'm aware of. Their recommended lines offer only obscure compensation for being a pawn (sometimes more) down though. For example an important line goes: 1. c4 b6 2. d4 e6 3. e4 Bb7 4. Bd3 f5 5. exf5 Bb4+ 6. Kf1 Nf6 7. Nf3 O-O 8. a3 Bd6 9. Nc3 exf5 10. Bxf5 Qe8 11. Be3 Qh5 when White has 12. Ng5 Qxd1+ 13. Rxd1. It's += IMO but compensation according to Kaissiber. 

I think Blacks best bet is 4...Bb4+. Two months ago I heard a rumour that an expert (~2000) overplayed an IM after 5.Bd2 Bxd2+ 6.Nxd2 e5!?. I don't know how the game continued but I guess the IM took on e5 instead of playing the solid 7.d5 +=. 
  
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TN
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Re: 4.Bd3 english defence
Reply #2 - 04/26/11 at 09:47:01
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 04/25/11 at 13:18:38:
slughouse wrote on 04/25/11 at 11:30:18:
So, does 4...f5 work? In the main line, 5.exf5 Bxg2 6.Qh5+ g6 7.fxg6 Bg7 etc, is black surviving? It would be great if the tactics worked for black, otherwise it would appear 4.Bd3 takes all the fun out of black's opening.. Also, what is an up-to-date source on this line? Thanks.

Yes.
No.
Kaissiber 33.


I'm assuming the article has an improvement for Black over the analyses in Avrukh's GM Repertoire, which was published after Kaissiber 33. 

4...Nf6 can also be played, but I don't trust it at all.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: 4.Bd3 english defence
Reply #1 - 04/25/11 at 13:18:38
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slughouse wrote on 04/25/11 at 11:30:18:
So, does 4...f5 work? In the main line, 5.exf5 Bxg2 6.Qh5+ g6 7.fxg6 Bg7 etc, is black surviving? It would be great if the tactics worked for black, otherwise it would appear 4.Bd3 takes all the fun out of black's opening.. Also, what is an up-to-date source on this line? Thanks.

Yes.
No.
Kaissiber 33.
  
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slughouse
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4.Bd3 english defence
04/25/11 at 11:30:18
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1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 3.e4 Bb7 4.Bd3

4...Nc6 5.Ne2 Nb4 6.Nbc3 Nxd3+ 7.Qxd3 is +=
4...Bb4+ 5.Bd2 is also +=

So, does 4...f5 work? In the main line, 5.exf5 Bxg2 6.Qh5+ g6 7.fxg6 Bg7 etc, is black surviving? It would be great if the tactics worked for black, otherwise it would appear 4.Bd3 takes all the fun out of black's opening.. Also, what is an up-to-date source on this line? Thanks.
  
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