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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation (Read 46037 times)
tony37
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #41 - 07/24/12 at 15:17:11
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bragesjo wrote on 06/17/12 at 11:26:40:

I have made some more studies in the Nimzo Indian, including in lines that are not in my repertour and also read some wch match books and game collections with Nimzo Indian games. After 11 .. h6 12 f4 Ng6 13  Nxg6 fxg6 we have reached Spassky-Fischer Wch 0-1 . However white may have some chanses if he avoids 14 fxe5.

Speaking of Sokolovs new book, I found is usuefull to see what lines he thought was critical and it help my form my black repertour but I have not read it complety since I usually plays 1 e4.

I have Sokolov's book too, but I am quite sure he hasn't consistently used an engine + database, I can often find clear improvements on his lines (for both sides, he isn't biased in this) and sometimes he just doesn't mention often played moves. Of course his positional understanding is a lot better than mine but even in the e3 Nimzo this isn't always sufficient.
For example, I think he is wrong in his conclusions about 4. e3 b6 5. Nge2 Ba6 6. a3 Be7 where he gives an interesting piece sacrifice but I think at the end it's completely equal (White may have a small edge in the 6.Ng3 line though, which he gives also). Another example: about the line 4. e3 b6 5. Nge2 Ne4 6. Qc2 Bb7 7. a3 Bxc3+ 8. Nxc3 he says: "8...Nxc3 is seldom played" Ahum?? this is the main line! By the way, I think White has a nice advantage after 9. Qxc3 O-O 10. b4 (but Sokolov doesn't even mention this move), so I wouldn't recommend playing 5...Ne4 as Black.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #40 - 06/17/12 at 11:26:40
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MNb wrote on 05/20/11 at 16:36:52:
bragesjo wrote on 05/20/11 at 12:40:37:
About Hubner variation, while I dont play it with either colour, the final position looks equal to me, dont get the point of Re1, is it to play Nf1 at some point?

As far as I understand White has some chances against the Hübner if Black castles short. So after 4.e3 c5 White might consider the amazingly sharp 5.Ne2. After 4.e3 0-0 5.Bd3 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.0-0 Bxc3 8.bxc3 d6 9.e4 e5 10.d5 Ne7 11.Nh4 White may have some chances.
How do you avoid this, Bragesjo?


I have made some more studies in the Nimzo Indian, including in lines that are not in my repertour and also read some wch match books and game collections with Nimzo Indian games. After 11 .. h6 12 f4 Ng6 13  Nxg6 fxg6 we have reached Spassky-Fischer Wch 0-1 . However white may have some chanses if he avoids 14 fxe5.

Speaking of Sokolovs new book, I found is usuefull to see what lines he thought was critical and it help my form my black repertour but I have not read it complety since I usually plays 1 e4.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #39 - 06/17/12 at 01:53:58
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Djy wrote on 06/14/11 at 08:49:08:
LeeRoth wrote on 05/29/11 at 15:03:18:
If someone can show an edge for White after 4.e3 c5 5.Nge2, I would be glad to see it.  



II.  6..d5 7.a3 Be7 when 8.Nf4 and 8.c5 are the two main White tries.  I used to play 8.c5 and have also tried 7.c5, but White doesn't get anything in either case.  I'm now looking at 8.Nf4 0-0  9.cxd5 Nxd5 10.Nxd5 exd5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0 Bf6 13.Be3 g6 14.Rac1 and wondering if this is the best White can do?      

8.Nf4 0-0  9.cxd5 Nxd5 10.Ncxd5 exd5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0 Bf6 13.Be3 g6 14.Rac1 is probably the right way.
If you look at game like Kuzubov- Vakarek 2004 or Kacheishvili-Kachiani white seem to keep a dangerous initiative IMHO


In his new book on the Nimzo, Ivan Sokolov endorses 8.Nf4 for White.  He notes that the d4/d5 central pawn formation means that White will have the better light-squared bishop and an enduring edge.
  
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #38 - 06/15/11 at 15:59:40
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Known and named - the Taimanov variation - but obscure/old. Just the sort of thing Ivanchuk sometimes likes Smiley Really not very like the Zurich as black is normally playing a quick d5.

Blacks usual idea vs a Bd3/Nf3 set up is a Ragozin thing with a6/a5/dc/Bd6 etc. Think thats quite established as its a main line of that opening.

Hansen seem to think that the game line might be critical and it followed one of the games he gives up to Bg5.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #37 - 06/15/11 at 13:19:21
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Yesterday Ivanchuk played 4 .. Nc6 agianst Nakamura and got a draw. Hopefully it will feutre in a subscription section. Any thought about that line? It has things in common with the Zurich variation (4 Qc2 Nc6). I have never seen it before.

  
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #36 - 06/14/11 at 08:49:08
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LeeRoth wrote on 05/29/11 at 15:03:18:
If someone can show an edge for White after 4.e3 c5 5.Nge2, I would be glad to see it.  



II.  6..d5 7.a3 Be7 when 8.Nf4 and 8.c5 are the two main White tries.  I used to play 8.c5 and have also tried 7.c5, but White doesn't get anything in either case.  I'm now looking at 8.Nf4 0-0  9.cxd5 Nxd5 10.Nxd5 exd5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0 Bf6 13.Be3 g6 14.Rac1 and wondering if this is the best White can do?      

8.Nf4 0-0  9.cxd5 Nxd5 10.Ncxd5 exd5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0 Bf6 13.Be3 g6 14.Rac1 is probably the right way.
If you look at game like Kuzubov- Vakarek 2004 or Kacheishvili-Kachiani white seem to keep a dangerous initiative IMHO
  

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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #35 - 06/08/11 at 14:31:24
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TN wrote on 05/29/11 at 15:10:39:
LeeRoth wrote on 05/29/11 at 15:03:18:
If someone can show an edge for White after 4.e3 c5 5.Nge2, I would be glad to see it.  

After 5..cxd4 6.exd4, there are, afaik, two critical lines:  

I.  6..0-0 7.a3 Be7 8.d5 exd5 9.cxd5, when Black has a choice between 9..Re8 and 9..Bc5.  The evaluation of these variations has shifted back and forth over time.  I don't know where current theory stands, but the whole thing looks a mess to me.

II.  6..d5 7.a3 Be7 when 8.Nf4 and 8.c5 are the two main White tries.  I used to play 8.c5 and have also tried 7.c5, but White doesn't get anything in either case.  I'm now looking at 8.Nf4 0-0  9.cxd5 Nxd5 10.Nxd5 exd5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0 Bf6 13.Be3 g6 14.Rac1 and wondering if this is the best White can do?      


In line I I think White should be better, but I'd be surprised if White had even a miniscule edge in line II. Black's position is simply too solid.

Thrue but maybe 4.e3 c5 5.Ne2 cd 6.cd d5 7.c5 is not so bad 7.-Ne4 8.a3! or 7.-00 8.a3 with idea g3 Bg2 with space queenside magority i prefer white

edit Aah 7.c5 Ne4 8.a3 no work
« Last Edit: 06/08/11 at 17:25:37 by Djy »  

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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #34 - 05/29/11 at 15:10:39
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LeeRoth wrote on 05/29/11 at 15:03:18:
If someone can show an edge for White after 4.e3 c5 5.Nge2, I would be glad to see it.  

After 5..cxd4 6.exd4, there are, afaik, two critical lines:  

I.  6..0-0 7.a3 Be7 8.d5 exd5 9.cxd5, when Black has a choice between 9..Re8 and 9..Bc5.  The evaluation of these variations has shifted back and forth over time.  I don't know where current theory stands, but the whole thing looks a mess to me.

II.  6..d5 7.a3 Be7 when 8.Nf4 and 8.c5 are the two main White tries.  I used to play 8.c5 and have also tried 7.c5, but White doesn't get anything in either case.  I'm now looking at 8.Nf4 0-0  9.cxd5 Nxd5 10.Nxd5 exd5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0 Bf6 13.Be3 g6 14.Rac1 and wondering if this is the best White can do?      


In line I I think White should be better, but I'd be surprised if White had even a miniscule edge in line II. Black's position is simply too solid.
  

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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #33 - 05/29/11 at 15:03:18
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If someone can show an edge for White after 4.e3 c5 5.Nge2, I would be glad to see it.   

After 5..cxd4 6.exd4, there are, afaik, two critical lines:   

I.  6..0-0 7.a3 Be7 8.d5 exd5 9.cxd5, when Black has a choice between 9..Re8 and 9..Bc5.  The evaluation of these variations has shifted back and forth over time.  I don't know where current theory stands, but the whole thing looks a mess to me.

II.  6..d5 7.a3 Be7 when 8.Nf4 and 8.c5 are the two main White tries.  I used to play 8.c5 and have also tried 7.c5, but White doesn't get anything in either case.  I'm now looking at 8.Nf4 0-0  9.cxd5 Nxd5 10.Nxd5 exd5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0 Bf6 13.Be3 g6 14.Rac1 and wondering if this is the best White can do?
  
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #32 - 05/24/11 at 18:21:23
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@stigma: No, Kasparov doesn't give any lines. Well, he does show some developments in the Hübner and comes to the conclusion that White started looking for other tries against 4...c5.

As the 4...c5 5.Nge2(!) d5(!) line seems to be quite OK for Black, maybe 5.Nf3 turns out to be the critical move after all...

After 4...0-0 5.a3!? Bxc3 6.bxc3, another interesting try for Black is 6...d6!?, with the idea of 7.Bd3 e5 8.Ne2 e4. My impression ist that Black is fine. This line can also be played against 4.a3, there White has the extra-option of going for a quick f3 and e4.
  

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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #31 - 05/23/11 at 19:08:15
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About wanting to play either side in the Nimzo, generally speaking I would be be happy with either side on move 4 but  there are two exceptions. The first exception is the Saemich variation where I did rather play black. I also rather play black in the ultimate mainline in 4 Nf3 b6 5 Bg5 line, but I would by happy with either side of for example 5 Qb3.
  
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #30 - 05/23/11 at 14:43:48
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Re the Delayed Saemisch, there is some very interesting material in Shereshevsky's legendary book "The Soviet Chess Conveyor" - it will need updating in the detail, of course.

I used 4 e3 with reasonable success in quite strong UK postal events about ten years ago. White can wait until he gets useful informaton regarding Black's intended pawn-structure and king location, and then choose as appropriate between keeping the game within Rubinstein lines or heading for a delayed Saemisch.

I found that one critical line was 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O 5. Bd3 (I don't like 5.a3 much) 5... d5 6. a3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3 dxc4 8.Bxc4 c5 when I could find nothing better than inviting a transposition to the old 1950s main line of the Rubinstein by 9. Nf3; however, Black can (should?) avoid this by playing 9...Qc7, to which the best I could find was GM Jon Levitt's line 10. Ba2 b6 11. O-O Bb7 12. Ne5 - I still quite like this for White; it is probably equal, but with two bishops and those centre pawns there is definitely something to play for. I've attached my games with 4 e3 in the hope that someone will find them useful.
« Last Edit: 05/23/11 at 21:14:49 by Phil Adams »  

Nimzo4e3Ideas.pgn ( 4 KB | 302 Downloads )
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #29 - 05/23/11 at 14:30:26
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The ...b6 line is looking pretty solid to me at the moment. 

In the 4. ...c5 line, even a somewhat naive approach with Ne4, Nxc3 and Be7 was shown to be viable in recent time.
  
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #28 - 05/23/11 at 12:26:34
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Actually I can't really find anything I especially want to play as black vs 4 Nf3 either Smiley (lots of playable options of course!)
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Nimzoindian 4.e3 Rubinstein Variation
Reply #27 - 05/23/11 at 11:13:13
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TN wrote on 05/23/11 at 10:23:47:
Going slightly off-topic, I quite like 4.Nf3, when Black's main moves are 4...b6, 4...c5 and 4...d5. Each of these moves tend to lead to equality, but these equal positions are certainly not sterile. I'd even prefer White's position after 4...d5 and 4...c5, though I'm probably in the minority with this view.  Undecided


Well, Kasparov played 4 Nf3 for a reason Smiley
  
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