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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle (Read 5279 times)
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #12 - 06/07/11 at 07:29:14
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In team sports you have players being traded, drafted, and retired constantly. I have never seen a team stay exactly the same even between years. Thats why I can understand the champion having to compete again, because its not the same champion, it's new players and a new year. Chess however is an individual sport, and there is only one best. To truly become chess champion you should have to beat the previous champion. He did it, and so did the champion before him, and etc. It's the standard thing to do, and emotionally I think many would agree you should have to be able to beat the World Champion to become the World Champion. There shouldn't be any lucking out on blitz/rapid tie breaks in a tournament/match set up like Grischuck did against much stronger opponents, and being able to avoid proving youre the best. It helps prevent oddities and it ensures the person who over takes the World Champion title is truly deserving.
  

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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #11 - 06/03/11 at 10:15:32
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Another idea would be to let the top seeds choose their opponents among the lower seeds, plus that they start with White.
  
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #10 - 06/03/11 at 09:46:31
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I have followed the debate on the Candidates matches for a while. I fully agree that the chess produced wasn't the most exciting, and that the format should be changed.

I am also interested in sports general. The system with having a win being rewarded more than a draw is now accepted in e.g. ice hockey and soccer (3-1-0) in many leagues. I have also seen some tournaments having penalty shots performed before the games, in order to decide an extra point after a draw (but not a win/loss of course). This idea is perhaps ok to implement in chess, as was discussed by Bhat in the blog. To me, it didn't seem as good as in soccer, but at least it is fair in the sense that this way both contestants really know what will happen in case of a drawn match.

I agree that classical chess is what we should promote for a classical Word Champion! I also agree that it should be done in a mixed tournament and match set-up. This is already done in e.g. soccer and ice hockey. I also think that the soccer idea, to have the World Champion qualified for the play-offs is a good compromise. I don't think that a chess world champion should have a privilege to just sit and wait for a challenger, despite the tradition (there have been many traditions that have been abolished because they were, well, wrong). One way would be to use the proposed seeding system, but to seed the champion as no. 1, and the rest e.g. the Grand prix top 3 as 2-4, and the top 4 ratings as 5-8 (btw, the host country nominee-seed is a very odd idea to me). This way we are ensured to have the very top players playing for the crown.

Lastly, the whole point, to give some advantage to the top seeds, is a great idea. I am just not sure that draw-odds is fair enough. But maybe letting the top seed choose one more game with white or draw-odds could be very interesting. After all, the top seed has done something to deserve to be higher ranked and at the same time, it is always nice with some surprise upsets, right?. Otherwise we wouldn't even have to play any games!
  
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #9 - 06/03/11 at 05:46:14
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 05/28/11 at 21:08:53:
I just read Vinay Bhat's blog. Thanks, Paddy, for providing the link!

I found nothing wrong with the tie-break format. Bhat complained that having rapid and blitz chess wasn't materially better than other tie-breaks, but he's wrong. The rapid-play and blitz are chess. Awarding a  winner of a drawn match based on previous performance in tournaments may seem appropriate to GM Bhat, but it tilts the playing field too far in favor of the top seeds. 

I think 4 games is just too short a match. I would like to see 6, 6 and 8-10 games for the respective rounds. Also, some other GMs have argued that there was too little time between rounds, not giving the players enough time to sharpen their weapons. 

There will now be almost a full year before the next WC match, there could have been time to schedule intermediary matches. The problem, as always, is finding sponsorship for such matches. For me, FIDE got this mostly right. Having slightly longer matches would increase the likelihood of matches being decided in regulation. 

Whether there would still be 90% draws would be almost irrelevant. The real complaint wasn't the high number of drawn games, but the successful strategy of not trying to win as white and defending as Black. This strategy, which is still dubious even in a short match, becomes almost impossible in a longer match. And that, for me is the reason to extend matches....


Well, it's not so much that I think that quickplay time controls aren't chess, but that they're a different kind of chess than what we're trying to pick the Champion of. 

I had done a very similar analysis last night to the Krantz article ChessVibes published today (http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/skill-and-luck-in-high-level-chess-competition...), and although I used slightly different assumptions for the probability of win/draw/loss with white, the conclusions were similar - changing the length of the match from 4 to 6 or 8 games (even 10) doesn't dramatically reduce the chance the likelihood of a drawn match. It probably reduces the incentive to use the "draw quickly with White, try to hold as Black" strategy, but the 5/7 game, draw-odds matches I was proposing have the same number of black games that you have to defend in a 6/8 game match actually.

I agree that regular draw odds (especially in a short match) would be too big of an advantage, that's why I wanted to have an odd-number of games, where the lower-seeded player gets an extra white. Somebody in the comments there suggested the higher seed could choose. 

I need to double-check my numbers and all, but doing similar simulations to what Krantz did, I got the result that a little over half the time, the higher seed would advance in such a format. [This was only the original idea I had, not the "choose the draw-odds or extra-white advantage" scenario.] Anyways, a little over half the time seems reasonably fair to me, given the previously better results, and it fosters more fighting classical chess. 

I think you gave the reason why split up matches won't be done - to do that, you need more sponsors, and more prize money. Chess hasn't had that for a while.
  
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #8 - 05/29/11 at 12:09:34
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Why dont they do the Wch match parallel with the olympic winter games? Apart from ice hockey there is nothing of interest there anyway. Then you would have a 4-year cycle and press guarantueed nearby. That would also allow for a better qualifying format.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #7 - 05/28/11 at 21:08:53
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I just read Vinay Bhat's blog. Thanks, Paddy, for providing the link!

I found nothing wrong with the tie-break format. Bhat complained that having rapid and blitz chess wasn't materially better than other tie-breaks, but he's wrong. The rapid-play and blitz are chess. Awarding a  winner of a drawn match based on previous performance in tournaments may seem appropriate to GM Bhat, but it tilts the playing field too far in favor of the top seeds. 

I think 4 games is just too short a match. I would like to see 6, 6 and 8-10 games for the respective rounds. Also, some other GMs have argued that there was too little time between rounds, not giving the players enough time to sharpen their weapons. 

There will now be almost a full year before the next WC match, there could have been time to schedule intermediary matches. The problem, as always, is finding sponsorship for such matches. For me, FIDE got this mostly right. Having slightly longer matches would increase the likelihood of matches being decided in regulation. 

Whether there would still be 90% draws would be almost irrelevant. The real complaint wasn't the high number of drawn games, but the successful strategy of not trying to win as white and defending as Black. This strategy, which is still dubious even in a short match, becomes almost impossible in a longer match. And that, for me is the reason to extend matches.

Grischuk should be congratulated for his match strategy, which defeated the tournament favorites. But FIDE should work to make that strategy much more difficult in the future.

[Note: Edited to correct minor grammatical errors and make it slightly more readable.]
« Last Edit: 05/29/11 at 17:09:01 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #6 - 05/28/11 at 17:20:08
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GM Vinay Bhat has just published his thoughts on this issue, at some length, at his blog

http://vbhat.wordpress.com
  
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #5 - 05/28/11 at 14:11:30
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #4 - 05/28/11 at 08:54:29
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Perhaps to some extent but it does depend - a very small, double round robin is fine for solid people because you don't really get huge plus scores.

In reality its all going to come down to what FIDE can manage to fund/organise.

I would prefer matches but ideally they have to be slightly longer, have non trivial time gaps between them etc. If there isn't scope for that a tournament might work better.
  
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #3 - 05/28/11 at 07:53:36
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I must admit I don't understand much about chess, but in my view:

-isn't a double round robin format a bit unfavourable for solid players (let's say Kramnik) since this sort of tournament can only be won with a huge + score? By contrast a relatively long match is always an even contest. 
-I have never understood what's the problem with the WC privileges. It seems to me there is plenty of historical evidence showing that the WC, even with more privileges than now, usually struggled to hold the title. By contrast those players becoming world champions in no-privilege cycles hardly entered the legend.
  
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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #2 - 05/28/11 at 01:21:58
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1. I'd actually like a combination of both. A double round robin with 8-10 players and then knockout between the best 4, or similiar

2. 8-8-10. Kazan-Positive: The Blitz games were fun. Kazan-Negative: It wasn't supposed to be a Blitz championship

3. *Some* privilege should stay intact but he shouldn't be excluded from the entire qualifying cycle. Like, if it were to be matches, he only joins from the semis onwards or something.

4. Actually I think they should reduce the amount of WCs to 1 every 4-5 years. It would attract more viewers if it was a bigger, but rarer event.
  

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Re: Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
Reply #1 - 05/28/11 at 00:53:06
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1. Double round robin.

2. 8+10+12. 3 months break between quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals.

3. The World Champion's privilege should stay intact.

4. Perhaps FIDE should switch to a one and a half year cycle.
  

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Questionnaire on structure of the WC Cycle
05/27/11 at 20:28:14
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In an article on chessbase about the latest spat between Danailov and the world, there is a questionnaire that was sent by GM Emil Sutovsky to top players asking for input on the future structure of the wc cycle.

Quote:


1. What is more suitable system for Candidates – matches or double round robin?

2. If the match system is used, what format would you prefer (4+4+6, like in Kazan, 6+6+6, other...) Do you have positive/negative remarks about the format used in Kazan?

3. Should the World Champion's privilege stay intact or should the World Champion join the Candidates in the future cycles?

4. Do you think FIDE should preserve two-year cycle or consider switching to a yearly Championship?


What are people thoughts here?

My own thoughts:

1. If matches then they should be a different format than the current system, but I think a double rr candidates tournament would be acceptable.

2. I would have to give more thought on what would be better that would also be achievable.

3. Privilege should stay intact. It is a tradition similar to that of boxing, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

4. 2 year cycle so there is time to prepare/recuperate after the candidate is determined.
  
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