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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C51-C52: Evans Gambit maybe better than thought? (Read 42869 times)
Uhohspaghettio
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #15 - 06/01/11 at 23:53:14
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CaptainFuture wrote on 06/01/11 at 20:56:37:
And what is valid for the two knights is valid for the evans and chess in general too: You can not get an advantage if the black side makes no errors, but white can make life as difficult as possible for black.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-move_advantage_in_chess
  
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Keano
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #14 - 06/01/11 at 19:24:47
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Short said anyone playing 3...Nf6 was taking their life in their hands after he beat Hebden, but part of me thinks he just wanted to get more Evans gambits  Smiley I appreciate the point Markovich makes, but at all levels 3...Bc5 is pretty popular also so perhaps we should try and sort out the merits of the Evans before worrying about the two Knights. I've always felt the Evans was sound and worth the effort. The game in this thread is a very interesting weapon against the ...Be7 line.  It is obvious playing through the game that the White player had prepared deeply.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #13 - 06/01/11 at 19:18:30
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Quote:
The emphasized statement certainly is not analogous to what I said, since 1.d4 isn't an opponent's move.


The grass always seems greener somewhere else...

Quote:
A significant problem for a repertoire founded on the Evans Gambit is that you will very often see 3...Nf6, which is fully adequate for Black and which completely frustrates your desire to play in gambit fashion.


However, 1...c6, 1...d6, 1...d5 (etc etc) would frustrate your desire to play in gambit fashion even more than 1...e5. As the song goes: You can't always get what you want...
  
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #12 - 06/01/11 at 18:42:48
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TalJechin wrote on 06/01/11 at 15:29:35:


I don't understand Markovich's reasoning either. 3.-Bc5 and 3.-Nf6 are two different commonly played defences. One could just as well state that the "problem" with the Ruy Lopez is the Petroff, which is rather irrelevant once Black has played 2...Nc6. Or that the problem with 1.e4 is 1.d4! With that line of reasoning you'll just end up like Buridan's donkey...


The emphasized statement certainly is not analogous to what I said, since 1.d4 isn't an opponent's move.  

Pardon my imprecision, though.  It seems that I invited quibbles by not spelling my point out in A, B, C fashion.  So let me say, A significant problem for a repertoire founded on the Evans Gambit is that you will very often see 3...Nf6, which is fully adequate for Black and which completely frustrates your desire to play in gambit fashion.  That is what I thought I implied by my saying "from a repertoire standpoint" and by my implicit recommendation of the Two Knights.

If I considered the Petroff to be fully adequate for Black I would agree that that defense is an analogous problem for a repertoire founded on the Spanish, but I do not.  But there are many who think that the Petroff is indeed a problem for would-be Spanish players, so that claim must at least be arguable.

So I modestly claim that I actually did say something.  Maybe it wasn't quite on-topic, but since it was in response to a post in the vein of "Hmm, should I take up the Evans?" it seemed appropriate.

If someone wants to base his repertoire on the Evans I wish him well.  If he tries 3.Bc4 against me, though, he will see 3...Nf6.

  

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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #11 - 06/01/11 at 15:52:11
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MNb wrote on 06/01/11 at 15:12:33:
Markovich wrote on 06/01/11 at 13:11:59:
From a repertoire standpoint a major problem with the Evans Gambit is the Two Knights Defense.  But I don't think that much should be made from Gustafsson's defeat.  Who's playing the Evans on a regular basis, after all?


cynima wrote on 06/01/11 at 14:18:00:
I do not understand why the Two Knights Defence should be a repertoire problem, it is simply another variation. If you play for example the Ruy Lopez with white, you have to be ready for the Schliemann, main line, Berlin etc

If you can show us how White can play for an advantage after 3...Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 you will make a lot of people happy.
If you can't Markovich is right. The reason I never have played the attractive Evans Gambit is 3...Nf6. The reason I never have met the Evans Gambit is also 3...Nf6.


I do not care about += positions for white because I want positions that I like and understand and suit my style of play. Most amateurs want to proof their opening is +=, but then when the opening is over they have no idea how to play in the right way on ...
And after all, at some point black is ALWAYS equal in every main opening if he does not do a mistake 
  
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #10 - 06/01/11 at 15:29:35
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MNb wrote on 06/01/11 at 15:12:33:
Markovich wrote on 06/01/11 at 13:11:59:
From a repertoire standpoint a major problem with the Evans Gambit is the Two Knights Defense.  But I don't think that much should be made from Gustafsson's defeat.  Who's playing the Evans on a regular basis, after all?


cynima wrote on 06/01/11 at 14:18:00:
I do not understand why the Two Knights Defence should be a repertoire problem, it is simply another variation. If you play for example the Ruy Lopez with white, you have to be ready for the Schliemann, main line, Berlin etc

If you can show us how White can play for an advantage after 3...Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 you will make a lot of people happy.
If you can't Markovich is right. The reason I never have played the attractive Evans Gambit is 3...Nf6. The reason I never have met the Evans Gambit is also 3...Nf6.


I don't understand Markovich's reasoning either. 3.-Bc5 and 3.-Nf6 are two different commonly played defences. One could just as well state that the "problem" with the Ruy Lopez is the Petroff, which is rather irrelevant once Black has played 2...Nc6. Or that the problem with 1.e4 is 1.d4! With that line of reasoning you'll just end up like Buridan's donkey...
  
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #9 - 06/01/11 at 15:12:33
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Markovich wrote on 06/01/11 at 13:11:59:
From a repertoire standpoint a major problem with the Evans Gambit is the Two Knights Defense.  But I don't think that much should be made from Gustafsson's defeat.  Who's playing the Evans on a regular basis, after all?


cynima wrote on 06/01/11 at 14:18:00:
I do not understand why the Two Knights Defence should be a repertoire problem, it is simply another variation. If you play for example the Ruy Lopez with white, you have to be ready for the Schliemann, main line, Berlin etc

If you can show us how White can play for an advantage after 3...Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 you will make a lot of people happy.
If you can't Markovich is right. The reason I never have played the attractive Evans Gambit is 3...Nf6. The reason I never have met the Evans Gambit is also 3...Nf6.
  

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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #8 - 06/01/11 at 14:49:12
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I play the Evan's or attempt to anyway.  More often at my level (class C) I tend to get 3...Nf6 but I have had decent results with 4 d4.  It's just all good old classical chess, let the best man win.
  
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #7 - 06/01/11 at 14:32:58
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #6 - 06/01/11 at 14:26:18
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Here are some other recent games with the Evans Gambit:





  
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cynima
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #5 - 06/01/11 at 14:18:00
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Markovich wrote on 06/01/11 at 13:11:59:
From a repertoire standpoint a major problem with the Evans Gambit is the Two Knights Defense.  But I don't think that much should be made from Gustafsson's defeat.  Who's playing the Evans on a regular basis, after all?


I do not understand why the Two Knights Defence should be a repertoire problem, it is simply another variation. If you play for example the Ruy Lopez with white, you have to be ready for the Schliemann, main line, Berlin etc

Objectively black is of course equal in the Evans Gambit, but if you like the positions with white you can play it and have fun Smiley Especially things can very fast become very sad for black as for example in the game Huschenbeth-Gustafsson
  
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #4 - 06/01/11 at 13:11:59
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From a repertoire standpoint a major problem with the Evans Gambit is the Two Knights Defense.  But I don't think that much should be made from Gustafsson's defeat.  Who's playing the Evans on a regular basis, after all?
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Arcticmonkey
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #3 - 06/01/11 at 12:01:57
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Totally dangerous. Evidently, White had probably got a copy of Gustafsson's DVD, or was extremely well prepared otherwise. 

After 11.Nd4(!) (only 11.Ng5 is considered on the DVD) then 11...Ne7 12.Nb5 Nac6! I think is better than 12...a6,
As 13.Nxc7+ Qxc7 14.Qxc7 Be5 amusingly traps the queen. 

White still might have the two bishops, but the black pieces seem to find adequate squares to more or less maintain the balance:
15.Qxe5 Nxe5 16.Bf4 N7g6 17.Be3 Be6 18.Nd2 f5

Maybe the tiniest bit better for White but should be fine for Black. 

Actually, whilst we are talking about this, does anyone actually HAVE CBM 142 yet? Schroeder posted his message like 5 seconds before i posted mine so i had to modify it!. Umm, so what does she advocate then???
  
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #2 - 06/01/11 at 11:46:28
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This game is commented here: http://chessbase.de/nachrichten.asp?newsid=11742

Apparently both players followed a recent analysis by Yelena Dembo in Chessbase Magazine 142. Gustafsson deviated with 15.-Qd6, after which his position is lost. Probably he is already seriously worse after 12.-Nd5 13.c4!.
  
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Re: Evans Gambit maybe better than all thought?
Reply #1 - 06/01/11 at 11:32:08
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Nice game - Evans is always dangerous.
  
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