Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Chess terminology worldwide (Read 76233 times)
Vass
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1105
Joined: 06/22/11
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #25 - 07/13/11 at 21:07:52
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/13/11 at 16:57:26:
Some more German chess terms which "leaked" into the public sphere (or not, like "Schachturnier" = chess tournament, which I merely used as control term): http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Zugzwang%2CSchachturnier%2CH%C3%A4nge...

(Hängepartie = adjourned game; Zeitnot = time trouble; Zugzwang = zugzwang)

Zeitnot and Zugzwang are widely used here in Bulgaria too.. In fact, we don't have other useful words to describe these two situations.
Our chess lexicon is very mixed. For example, we use "debut" for opening but Mittelspiel and Endspiel for the next stages of the game.
Edit: And besides, we use "chess party" instead of "chess game". Some of the opening names here are: Spanish Party (if you say "Ruy Lopez" no one will know what it's all about), Russian Party (Petroff is unknown here), Italian Party (the same is with Giuoco Piano)..
As for the pieces, we use: Tzar (King), Tzaritsa (Queen), Top (Cannon) - rook, Officer (Bishop), Kon (Horse), Peshka (Pedestrian) - pawn. Very, very mixed lexicon - we use "en passant", but in the same time "endspiel"...and "peshka", while "Top" (cannon) for rook is pure Bulgarian. Four different languages!.. And if I try to think some more about it - who knows, maybe we use some English or Italian words, too..
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #24 - 07/13/11 at 16:57:26
Post Tools
Some more German chess terms which "leaked" into the public sphere (or not, like "Schachturnier" = chess tournament, which I merely used as control term): http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Zugzwang%2CSchachturnier%2CH%C3%A4nge...


(Hängepartie = adjourned game; Zeitnot = time trouble; Zugzwang = zugzwang)
« Last Edit: 07/14/11 at 13:57:17 by Stefan Buecker »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #23 - 07/13/11 at 16:07:51
Post Tools
Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 07/01/11 at 09:43:01:

Eng.          Ger.                     literally

[...]
0-0            kurze ("short") Rochade, no chess-unrelated meaning
0-0-0         lange ("long") Rochade, no chess-unrelated meaning
[...]

Hello Oliver / Zwischenzugzwang,

I am inclined to think that the German term "Rochade" does have some chess-unrelated meaning: (a) in soccer; (b) and more important: in the political/business sphere, when members of the "elite" are changing [job] places. Often in a context of backstage deals, nepotism, saving faces etc. 

A Google tool is useful to check whether chess terms are leaking into the public sphere: http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Remis%2CPatt%2CRochade%2CUnentschiede...;



Anyway, the term "Patt" [stalemate] obviously leaked into politics in the Cold War era. And it was useful enough to remain in use afterwards. The term "Remis" has become quite common in sports in general, but it seems that recently the equivalent (but not chess-specific) word "Unentschieden" [literally: undecided] is increasing its market share. 

"Rochade" is used more often in recent decades, which seems to support my opinion above. But I have no explanation for the spike of "Rochade" shortly before 1900, someone enlighten me, please...
« Last Edit: 07/14/11 at 13:54:23 by Stefan Buecker »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #22 - 07/08/11 at 16:35:10
Post Tools
Eng.          Swedish            literally

king          Kung                   king
queen       Dam/Drottning    lady/queen
rook         Torn                    tower
bishop       Löpare                "runner" (in sports), but only in combination, e.g. "långdistanslöpare", long-distance runner
knight        Springare (häst)        Horse
pawn         bonde                     farmer

Check!       Schack!               Also means Chess
exchange   kvalitet                quality
rank          rad                         row
file             linje                       line
diagonal     diagonal               diagonal
square       fält                       field
piece         pjäs                      piece (not pawn)
sacrifice     offer                     sacrifice
0-0            kort rockad        
0-0-0         lång rockad        

One word that Rolf Martens noticed (or introduced, for all I know...) was the term brohinka(häst), or just brohinka - meaning a knight on h6. 

As I remember it from a lecture of his ten years ago, he claimed it was a term used in the south of Sweden (Scania) back in the 1940s or earlier.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TalJechin
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no secret ingredient.

Posts: 2892
Location: Malmö
Joined: 08/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #21 - 07/08/11 at 16:21:01
Post Tools
Quote:
Zwischenzugzwang wrote on Today at 3:40pm:
A german would probably understand the meaning of "am toten Pferd ziehen", I guess, but (s)he might misinterpret it as a description for somebody who never gives up hope or is just brainless.

Now this is an interesting misunderstanding, as I always assumed that "to flog a dead horse" implied that!


As this is the title of an old Sex Pistols album, released after the group disintegrated, I've always assumed it meant something like: squeezing the very last drop of worth from something...

Quote:
flog a dead horse Chiefly Brit
a.  to harp on some long discarded subject
b.  to pursue the solution of a problem long realized to be insoluble
(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Flogging+a+Dead+Horse)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10777
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #20 - 07/08/11 at 16:06:37
Post Tools
Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 07/08/11 at 13:40:09:
Dear MNb, what is the exact meaning of the verb "schaken" in Dutch? Does it mean "to play chess" or "to (give) check"?

schaken = to play chess
schaak geven = to (give) check
This is a bit archaic though. The Dutch prefer "schaak staan" = to be in check. So not: Wit geeft schaak, but Zwart staat schaak.

Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 07/08/11 at 13:40:09:
A german would probably understand the meaning of "am toten Pferd ziehen", I guess, but (s)he might misinterpret it as a description for somebody who never gives up hope or is just brainless.

Now this is an interesting misunderstanding, as I always assumed that "to flog a dead horse" implied that!
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zwischenzugzwang
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing
& chess pubs!

Posts: 380
Location: Zotzenbach
Joined: 06/14/11
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #19 - 07/08/11 at 13:40:09
Post Tools
Hello everybody!

Thankas a lot to all contributors so far!

So we have words from Dutch, German, Hungarian, Italian and Romanian yet (and English, of course).

Maybe you are so kind and answer my following questions:

gwnn wrote on 07/01/11 at 12:51:16:

Romanian (sorry I have no Romanian letters here)
pawn - pion
knight - cal (horse)
rook - turn (tower)
queen - dama
castle short/long - rocada scurta/lunga

From my Romanian grammar (language related books take that space that is left by my chessbooks  Sad) I conclude that the only ambigous letters in your list might be

-  < a > (for < a > proper, < ă > and < â >, the last one very rarely used, if I remember correctly),
-  < i > (for < i > proper and < î >),
-  < s > (for < s > proper and < ş >) and
-  < t > (for < t > proper and < ţ >).

Those show up in the words quoted above. So may I ask you to write those words again with the following conventions:

< ă > =  "a", < â > = "A",
< î > = "I",
< ş > = "sh", and 
< ţ > = "ts".

Are könnyűtiszt and nehéztiszt military ranks?

Thank you, gwnn!

Dear MNb, what is the exact meaning of the verb "schaken" in Dutch? Does it mean "to play chess" or "to (give) check"? I don't know a german verb for either of these, apart from the compounds schachspielen and schachgeben, something like *schachen in either sense is (at least for me) not possible. 

A german would probably understand the meaning of "am toten Pferd ziehen", I guess, but (s)he might misinterpret it as a description for somebody who never gives up hope or is just brainless.

Dear Bresando,

do I understand you correctly that pedone is a pedestrian?

----------

As far as I see, in all those languages there is a noun for 0-0 / 0-0-0. It might sound stupid in an english-speaking chess forum to ask that question, but is there also a noun for that in English (apart from the gerund "castling", of course)??
Are there languages who have two unrelated words for 0-0 and 0-0-0 respectively?

It might also be interesting to inquire about the words for pawn promotion. In German it's (Bauern)Umwandlung, lit. "pawn-conversion". I wonder if eng. "to queen a pawn" is also possible if the pawn becomes a knight? Or can one say "to knight (bishop/rook) a pawn"? Are there other languages that in one way or the other use the word for "queen" to express "pawn promotion"?

Dear chess friends speaking any of the other 5994 languages not mentioned here, please contribute your chess expressions!

Best regards,

Zwischenzugzwang
  

What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10777
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #18 - 07/07/11 at 03:25:58
Post Tools
We Dutch don't flog (nearly) dead horses, we pull them. If that means that we are more civilized or more stupid is another matter.

Markovich wrote on 07/06/11 at 11:03:11:
Names of openings are interesting. I know that at one time, the Two Knights Defense was called the Prussian Defense.

Euwe systematically called 3...Nf6 the Prussian Game. It's still used between brackets as an alternative for the Two Knights Game in Heyken and Fette's reworking of Euwe's book on the Open Games. Despite Euwe "Tweepaardenspel" has won in the Netherlands too.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #17 - 07/06/11 at 12:50:59
Post Tools
Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 07/06/11 at 09:06:09:
Hallo Stefan,

your quote "The Dutch have the saying "aan een dood paard trekken" ("am toten Pferd ziehen"), in English there is "flogging (or: beating) a dead horse", but in German we have nothing similar, right? Only "sich umsonst/unnütz anstrengen". " - end quote.

...

Zwischenzugzwang (Oliver)


I was quite surprised to read that there is no German equivalent to flogging a dead horse. There's a famous, brutally evocative scene in Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment of a man flogging his (almost) dead horse. The power and imagery of that scene has stuck with me since I first read it about 30 years ago. I figured that even if "flogging a dead horse" wasn't a common phrase in Germany before Dostoevsky, every European nation would have a similar term after his great book. 

Yes, I know Dostoevsky wasn't German, but I thought that great literature breaks down language barriers.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #16 - 07/07/11 at 23:20:18
Post Tools
Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
God Member
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #15 - 07/06/11 at 10:31:20
Post Tools
"Offizier" - German in Mieses/Dufresne for everything except King and Pawn.

off-topic:
"Ein totes Pferd reiten." This is something you'll find easily via google and in satirical use for some behaviours in organizations.

"Auf ein totes Pferd setzen." (= bet on a dead horse) seems common to me. But I admit not having heard it since years.
  

Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gwnn
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 472
Joined: 03/21/11
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #14 - 07/06/11 at 09:42:32
Post Tools
GeneM wrote on 07/04/11 at 05:11:37:
TERMINOLOGY
White starts with 16 'pieces'. They are 8 'pawns' plus 8 '
officers'.

This distinction exists in Hungarian. The word for piece (other than a pawn) is literally officer. Also there are light officers (könnyűtiszt, minor piece) and heavy officers (nehéztiszt, major pieces).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zwischenzugzwang
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing
& chess pubs!

Posts: 380
Location: Zotzenbach
Joined: 06/14/11
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #13 - 07/06/11 at 09:06:09
Post Tools
Hallo Stefan,

your quote "The Dutch have the saying "aan een dood paard trekken" ("am toten Pferd ziehen"), in English there is "flogging (or: beating) a dead horse", but in German we have nothing similar, right? Only "sich umsonst/unnütz anstrengen". " - end quote.

As I was busy over the last days, I only managed to start my little research this morning. Lets see what will pop up. In the meantime, what about the following equivalent: "den (eigenen) König überdecken", for our english speaking friends "to overprotect one's king"??  Smiley

Herzliche Grüße

Zwischenzugzwang (Oliver)
  

What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10777
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #12 - 07/05/11 at 16:50:49
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/05/11 at 15:51:43:
From 1900-1920 the move 2.c3 is usually associated with Alapin.

Janos Flesch in his book on the Morra Gambit calls it the Alapin Line too. That is from 1981.
Thanks for the info on Lindehn. I didn't know that. It explains why we don't know more games from him.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GeneM
Senior Member
****
Offline


Tournament winner gets
two fun filled knights!

Posts: 303
Location: near Seattle WA USA
Joined: 01/12/08
Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #11 - 07/04/11 at 05:11:37
Post Tools
'vicar' is a better English name for the piece than is 'bishop' (tradition aside).

Vb2 , Bb2

'bishop' is the only piece whose name begins with a letter that is used in standard coordinate notation (what we all misnomerly call 'algebraic' notation). But there is no column 'v'.

I also kinda like that the shape of the letter 'V' seems a more natural match or description of how a vicar moves, than the letter 'B' is.

In the dictionary, the definition of 'vicar' uses the word 'bishop'.  Here is one example (which also shows that the words 'vicar' and 'vicarious' are related):


RC Church  a bishop or priest representing the pope or the ordinary of a diocese and exercising a limited jurisdiction

TERMINOLOGY
White starts with 16 'pieces'. They are 8 'pawns' plus 8 '
officers'.
  

GeneM , CastleLong.com , FRC-chess960
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo