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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Chess terminology worldwide (Read 76240 times)
MNb
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #85 - 07/24/11 at 21:06:25
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In the Surinamese telephonebook I have found two people who are named "Schaak", both living in Paramaribo. The only other meaning the word "schaken" has is to steal a bride. That habit is highly uncommon In Suriname.
  

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Zwischenzugzwang
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #84 - 07/24/11 at 19:45:52
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Fllg wrote on 07/24/11 at 11:39:59:
If you look into a german phone directory there are quite a few people whose surname is "Schach". I don´t know if there is an origin not connected with chess.

There are even 4 people in the german rating list with this surname.

This matter might be not so easy to decide. I'll try to summarize what the Kluge (mentioned previously in this thread) has to say about this (p. 789). I think the laymen's opinion is that the word Schach comes from Persian šah over Arabic, but that doesn't seem to be entirely clear. There's Latin ludus scaccorum, "chess game", but

Quote:
der Zusammenhang mit dem arabischen Wort bleibt aber unklar, da ein entsprechender Lautübergang nur in sehr früher Zeit möglich gewesen wäre. Es wird deshalb ein zusätzlicher Einfluß eines germanischen Wortes erwogen, das teilweise auch als eigentlicher Ausgangspunkt der volkssprachlichen Wörter ansehen wird (...).

My translation: "The connection with the Arabic word remains unclear, because an appropriate sound transfer would have been possible only in very ancient times. Because of that, an additional influence of a Germanic word is taken into consideration, sometimes this is considered as the real origin of the colloquial words."

It seems to be clear, according to the Kluge, that German Schach stems from Old French eschac. The Dictionnaire des étymologies obscures (by P.Guiraud, Paris 1982, I don't have that book) claimes that French eschac (or echec) had the meaning of "booty" (Eschac!, "your king is a possible booty!"). This word is again of German origin (Old High German scāh, "robbery"), and there is the obsolete German word Schächer with the meaning of "robber".

So my conclusion is that the surname Schach (and also names like Schacher, which are possibly more common) might come from the meaning "robber", as might the modern word Schach. But I really don't know.

Best regards,

Zwischenzugzwang
  

What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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Fllg
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #83 - 07/24/11 at 11:39:59
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If you look into a german phone directory there are quite a few people whose surname is "Schach". I don´t know if there is an origin not connected with chess.

There are even 4 people in the german rating list with this surname.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #82 - 07/24/11 at 09:38:54
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You are right, "Zabel" means Spielbrett in general, not only for chess. Of course chess is the king of games, so... 

The fact that "Zabel" is a half-forgotten term made Kurt Richter's choice of the pseudonym "Dr. Zabel" so charming. 

Edit: Are there family names elsewhere which really have their origin in a chess term? Sahovic perhaps?
  
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Zwischenzugzwang
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #81 - 07/24/11 at 09:27:23
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Oh, eleven! Thank you, Girkassa!

MNb wrote on 07/23/11 at 20:53:35:
A few less. Of the 20 languages spoken in Suriname likely less than 10 use a chess terminology of their own. The most common language, Sranantongo, certainly has not. I doubt very much if the Native and Marroonlanguages have. Besides Dutch (the official language), Arab and Brazilian Portuguese possibly Sarnami (spoken by Surinamese with ancestors from India), Javanese and Hakka-Chinese have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surinamese_people#Overview

Dear MNb, you are right, of course. There's always this number of 6.000 spoken languages around, but probably around a third of them is moribund, some of them might be "maintained" only because there is a "market" for them, i.e. some linguists who do research in them  Undecided.
In addition, many areas of vocabulary are prone to borrowing. Some core vocabulary like expressions for body parts, family relations, basic spatial and temporal concepts, traditional food etc. are not so likely to be borrowed, but in many (most?) cases a culture adopts a new (for them) concept, it will also adopt the words for that concept from the "giver". Chess terminology doesn't seem to be a basic concept in human cognition  Sad.
So without knowing the language situation in Suriname, I guess most "indigenous" chess players would use the Dutch chess terms, or maybe the terms from one of the other languages with "established" chess terminology, as English, maybe Portuguese, Arabic, Hindi. (That might not hinder them to use their language's word for "horse" for a knight, for example.) Such a situation will probably hold for the vast majority of the world's languages, so that the original figure of 6.000 comes down to a few dozens.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 07/23/11 at 20:59:02:
It seems that in your original list of basic chess terms one term is missing: board or chess board. In German we have "Schachbrett" (chess board) or "Spielbrett" (lit. playing board), but more common is the short "Brett" (board). A "Brett" is usually made of wood, but it seems that we don't care anymore and use the same term for the plastic version. Must be similar in English, I guess. 

What's more interesting: in German we also have the old (now a bit antiquated) term "Zabel". It comes from Latin "tabula" (for playing board). Sometimes one hears the family name "Zabel", which indeed had its origin in the chess term. 

Googling for "Brett + Schach" delivers about 10-15 times more results than for the other terms. 


I wonder if any German uses (Schach)Zabel at all, if (s)he is not talking about medieval chess? (How many do even know what it means?) Are you sure that the surname (or it's part) "Zabel" comes form the meaning "chess board" and not from the more general meaning "board"? Would be nice if there are family names related to chess!

Best regards,

Zwischenzugzwang

Immediately before posting, I've noticed your new message, Stefan, thank you. What do our anglophone chess friends mean - is this a "regular" expression? Are there other languages which can make a verb out of the nouns "queen" ("knight" [?], "rook" [??], "bishop" [???]) with the meaning "promotion to"?
  

What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #80 - 07/24/11 at 08:30:10
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Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 07/23/11 at 19:14:50:
Some postings earlier (# 19) I asked about expressions for pawn promotion, but there was now reply, as far as I can see: Quote:
It might also be interesting to inquire about the words for pawn promotion. In German it's (Bauern)Umwandlung, lit. "pawn-conversion". I wonder if eng. "to queen a pawn" is also possible if the pawn becomes a knight? Or can one say "to knight (bishop/rook) a pawn"? Are there other languages that in one way or the other use the word for "queen" to express "pawn promotion"?

Maybe this time I'm more successful?  Smiley

Edward Winter, in his list of earliest occurences of chess terms ( http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/earliest.html ), gives the following:

Quote:
[...] The present list comprises, for the most part, the earliest citations given in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), although some additional headwords and other complementary material are included. [...]
Knight, To
    ‘White could save a Pawn by Knighting instead of Queening.’ Chess Player’s Chronicle, 31 March 1886, page 456.
  
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #79 - 07/24/11 at 05:08:19
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MNb wrote on 07/18/11 at 21:27:48:
Have a nice week too.
I can assure you that in Dutch "lopen" is relatively slow, 6 km/h at the max. "Rennen" or "hardlopen" is fast. "Wandelen" is usually the relaxed form of "lopen", though "een stevige wandeling" indicates both a slightly higher pace and a longer distance. There is hardly ambiguity here.
In chess "loper" obviously is the Dutch form of "Läufer".


Interesting how a word can develop into different meanings in different languages. In Norwegian, "å løpe" unambigously means to run, so the literal translation of "løper" is "runner."
  
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #78 - 07/23/11 at 21:01:59
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Eng.          Norwegian            literally

king          konge                  king
queen       dronning              queen
rook         tårn                    tower
bishop       løper                  "runner"
knight       springer              "jumper"
pawn         bonde                 farmer

check!       sjakk!                same word as "chess"
exchange   kvalitet              quality
rank          rad                     row
file             linje                    line
diagonal     diagonal             diagonal
square       felt                     field (but means "square" in all board games)
piece         brikke (if referring to all chess pieces)
                 offiser (if referring to a non-pawn)
sacrifice     offer                   sacrifice
0-0            kort rokade        
0-0-0         lang rokade        

  
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #77 - 07/23/11 at 20:59:02
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Hello Zwischenzugzwang,

it seems that in your original list of basic chess terms one term is missing: board or chess board. In German we have "Schachbrett" (chess board) or "Spielbrett" (lit. playing board), but more common is the short "Brett" (board). A "Brett" is usually made of wood, but it seems that we don't care anymore and use the same term for the plastic version. Must be similar in English, I guess. 

What's more interesting: in German we also have the old (now a bit antiquated) term "Zabel". It comes from Latin "tabula" (for playing board). Sometimes one hears the family name "Zabel", which indeed had its origin in the chess term. 

Googling for "Brett + Schach" delivers about 10-15 times more results than for the other terms.
  
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #76 - 07/23/11 at 20:53:35
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Zwischenzugzwang wrote on 07/23/11 at 19:14:50:
So now there are only 5990 other languages left out there ...

A few less. Of the 20 languages spoken in Suriname likely less than 10 use a chess terminology of their own. The most common language, Sranantongo, certainly has not. I doubt very much if the Native and Marroonlanguages have. Besides Dutch (the official language), Arab and Brazilian Portuguese possibly Sarnami (spoken by Surinamese with ancestors from India), Javanese and Hakka-Chinese have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surinamese_people#Overview
  

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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #75 - 07/23/11 at 19:14:50
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Hello everybody!

First of all, thank you, Vass, for your Bulgarian contribution! Now we have some terminology of the following ten languages (+ some expressions from other languages): Bulgarian, Czech, Dutch, English, German, Hungarian, Italian, Romanian, Russian, and Swedish (I hope I haven't missed anything!). So now there are only 5990 other languages left out there ... 

Some postings earlier (# 19) I asked about expressions for pawn promotion, but there was now reply, as far as I can see: Quote:
It might also be interesting to inquire about the words for pawn promotion. In German it's (Bauern)Umwandlung, lit. "pawn-conversion". I wonder if eng. "to queen a pawn" is also possible if the pawn becomes a knight? Or can one say "to knight (bishop/rook) a pawn"? Are there other languages that in one way or the other use the word for "queen" to express "pawn promotion"?

Maybe this time I'm more successful?  Smiley

This afternoon I stumbled on the word "chessically", and I wonder how well established it is. Some quick googling showed 3.830 entries, whereas "chesswise" has 45.600, and "chessy" has 7.810.000. I don't know how distorted these figures are, as "Chesswise" seems to be some sort of whatever application, and there's at least one place in France Marne-la-Vallée-Chessy which seems to generate a lot of entries. What "chessical" / "chessy" adjectives and adverbs are out there?

Best regards,

Zwischenzugzwang
  

What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #74 - 07/19/11 at 11:37:58
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A boat piece was used in the indian variant Chaturaji or 4-handed Chaturanga, known from at least 1030, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaturaji.

The major pieces in Chaturaji were King, Elephant, Knight and Boat. But the elephant and the boat had switched movements compared to what you'd expect from other variants; the elephant moving like a rook and the boat like an alfil in Shatranj (two squares diagonally in any direction).

Is it too far-fetched to suggest that the boat piece in Chaturaji and in old russian Chess have a common origin, even with the unique boat/elephant switch in Chaturaji?
« Last Edit: 07/19/11 at 22:57:55 by Stigma »  

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Vass
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #73 - 07/19/11 at 09:45:45
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For Zzz..  Wink
English:  Bulgarian:                        Russian:
Pawn     Пешка (peshka/pedestrian) Пешка (pedestrian)
Knight    Кон  (kon/horse)               Конь (horse)
Bishop    Офицер (military officer)    Слон (elephant)
Rook      Топ (top/cannon,gun)        Ладья (ferry/barge)
Queen    Дама (dama/lady)             Ферзь (vizir/general)
King       Цар (tsar/king)                 Король (king)
  
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MNb
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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #72 - 07/18/11 at 21:27:48
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Have a nice week too.
I can assure you that in Dutch "lopen" is relatively slow, 6 km/h at the max. "Rennen" or "hardlopen" is fast. "Wandelen" is usually the relaxed form of "lopen", though "een stevige wandeling" indicates both a slightly higher pace and a longer distance. There is hardly ambiguity here.
In chess "loper" obviously is the Dutch form of "Läufer".
  

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Re: Chess terminology worldwide
Reply #71 - 07/18/11 at 17:38:19
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That's nice that we've finally some expressions from slave languages, thanks, thibdb13, Stigma and Smyslov_Fan!

Edit about one hour later: Sorry, of course I mean "Slavonic languages"!

Dear Vass, as you seem to be from (or at least: in) Bulgaria, maybe you could contribute the Bulgarian terms?

As Persian and Hindi were mentioned in the last posts, does anybody here know the modern chess terminologies (they might still equal the "old" ones) of these languages?

Alfil seems to be of Arabic origin, where al fīl is simply "the Elephant", and, as far as I know, fīl (without the definite article al) is also the word for "bishop" (in chess) in Modern Standard Arabic. Can anybody tell if that is correct? I wonder if some modern Arabic dialects have developed other expressions?

MNb wrote on 07/18/11 at 16:01:04:
Isn't the literal translation of 'loper' and 'Läufer' in English 'walker' iso 'runner'?


The verb laufen in German is ambiguous, as it can both mean "to run" and "to walk". So answering the question "Do you go by car into town?" with "Nein, ich laufe.", "No, I laufe", doesn't mean that the speaker will "run" into town, but that (s)he will simply "walk". On the other hand, one can use laufen in contrast to gehen: "After he had 5 km gelaufen, he ging the rest of the distance", i.e. 5 km running, and then walking. But I think the nomen agentis, the noun denoting the "doer of the activity", is not ambiguos: A (Langstrecken)Läufer is somebody who runs (long distances), whereas a "walker" in sports is translated as Geher. The motion verbs in germanic languages seem somehow to be semantically unstable over time, at least the differences between English and German concerning the usage of these verbs are huge.
For the part of loper, somebody else has to answer your question.

I'll probably have no internet access over the next few days, so I wish everybody a nice week!

Zwischenzugzwang
  

What do people mean when they say "Chess is the pawn of the soul"?
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