(UTC)
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. e4 e5 Spanish › Spanish repertoire
(Moderators: proustiskeen, trw)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 37
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Spanish repertoire (Read 375040 times)
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #360 - 12/17/11 at 08:13:55
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 12/16/11 at 19:15:01:

Edit: on second thought, while I agree that White is "better", I'm not sure that Black's draw will be very difficult after 19.f3 Bg6 20.Nb4 Nxb4 21.cxb4 d5.

I'd probably say the same about the last diagram position which I gave. "Probably a draw, but White has an extra pawn: +=" In comparison, your variation gives White more to hope for because of the possibility of establishing a passed pawn on the a-file. If all rooks were exchanged, Black might well be lost.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #359 - 12/16/11 at 19:15:01
Post Tools
That's true.  The line looks promising for White, I must agree.

Edit: on second thought, while I agree that White is "better", I'm not sure that Black's draw will be very difficult after 19.f3 Bg6 20.Nb4 Nxb4 21.cxb4 d5.
« Last Edit: 12/17/11 at 03:26:53 by Markovich »  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #358 - 12/16/11 at 05:09:11
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 12/16/11 at 04:22:43:
15...Nd5 may be stronger than 15...exd5. Then 16.exd6 cxd6 17.Qxe8 Raxe8 18.Nxb6 axb6 19.c4 Be2 20.cxd5 Bxd3 21.Rd1 Be2 22.Rd2 c5 23.b3 Ba6 24.Bb2 Re7 and the e-file and weak d-pawn may offer Black some comp.

White keeps an edge after 19.f3 Bf7 20.Rd1 b5 21.Kf2. In some lines a passed pawn may arise on the a-file.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #357 - 12/16/11 at 04:22:43
Post Tools
15...Nd5 may be stronger than 15...exd5. Then 16.exd6 cxd6 17.Qxe8 Raxe8 18.Nxb6 axb6 19.c4 Be2 20.cxd5 Bxd3 21.Rd1 Be2 22.Rd2 c5 23.b3 Ba6 24.Bb2 Re7 and the e-file and weak d-pawn may offer Black some comp.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #356 - 12/15/11 at 07:59:50
Post Tools
Alternatively, after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. d3 fxe4 5. dxe4 Nf6 6. 0-0 Bc5 7. Bxc6 bxc6 8.Nxe5 0-0 9. Nc3 d6 10. Na4 Qe8 11. Nd3 Bg4 12. Qe1 Bd4 13. c3 Bb6 White can play 14.h3 (instead of 14.Nxb6 followed by f3) 14...Bh5 (if 14...Be6, White now has the simple 15.b3) 15.e5!? dxe5 16.Nxb6 cxb6 17.Nxe5 Nd7 18.Nxd7 Qxd7 19.Qd2 and White has a sound extra pawn. Yes, there are still the opposite bishops, but += it certainly is. 

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #355 - 12/15/11 at 07:21:35
Post Tools
Quote:
@Matemax: In your analysis, maybe 23. Qc2 (instead of 23.Qe3) is slightly better, intending 23...Nc5 24.Rad1 Nd3 25.Re2 followed by Red2 and an eventual Rxd3. White has two pawns for the exchange, apparently Black won't get open files for his rooks. I admit that White's edge is small, but wouldn't this be sufficient for our repertoire?


That is a good practical try for White. But if he wants to win he has to push his pawns and will open lines which will give Black counterplay. I think the position is therefore dynamically balanced after your exchange sac. 

Btw - what can happen in such positions (2R vs RB) was shown impressively in the game McShane-Kramnik, London recently
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #354 - 12/14/11 at 21:45:40
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 12/14/11 at 15:14:39:
Stefan, do you have some secrets you want to keep about 9.Nxe5 after 4.Nc3?

The best line for Black against 9.Nxe5 isn't obvious. Now that Huggy is back, let's see at first what he has found.  

@Matemax: In your analysis, maybe 23. Qc2 (instead of 23.Qe3) is slightly better, intending 23...Nc5 24.Rad1 Nd3 25.Re2 followed by Red2 and an eventual Rxd3. White has two pawns for the exchange, apparently Black won't get open files for his rooks. I admit that White's edge is small, but wouldn't this be sufficient for our repertoire? 

@Markovich: 17...Qf7 - yes, maybe. I had also looked at 17...Qe6 18.Re1 Nd7 19.Be3 Ne5 20.Nxe5 dxe5, when Black has some control over the d-file. But again White keeps fine options to gradually improve his position. It isn't clear that Black has full compensation.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
huggy
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 21
Joined: 04/04/09
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #353 - 12/14/11 at 15:45:32
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 12/14/11 at 15:14:39:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 12/14/11 at 12:32:54:
PANFR wrote on 11/30/11 at 10:03:46:

Regarding 9.Nxe5- isn't Black supposed to be OK after 9...Qe6? Most top level games after it end in a draw, most recently Bologan- Svjaginsev.

I agree that 9...Qe6 is best. Or do you think 9...0-0 is better, Huggy?

Regarding the line 4.d3 ... 10.Na4! which I didn't like for Black (see two posts ago), does anybody see an improvement? If not, this may well become our repertoire suggestion against the Jaenisch. If it is true that 4.Nc3 is equal (which I still believe), there may be nothing better.


In Matei - Noble, 17...Qf7 seems worthy of consideration.  From the look of it however, I would rather be White.

Stefan, do you have some secrets you want to keep about 9.Nxe5 after 4.Nc3?  I don't think Huggy is coming back or even is reading your posts, so it seems pointless to call upon him any more.


Hey guys,  sorry I've been incredibly inactive for a little while due to frequent travel overseas with work.  Great to see the discussion going on and I have some catching up to do on the Qxe5 lines!

I don't have my personal laptop with my files at the moment but distinctly remember that 9.. Qe6 was the line I felt best led to equality.  I'll be back home in a few days and make sure to post up my notes, would you prefer a toplines overview of the lines in text format or a PGN file?

A caveat ahead of posting my analysis, all of my work on the Jaenisch was done a month or so ago as part of a Quenless Middle game study - I don't actually play it (yet!).  The Qxe5 and Nxe5 provided some excellent positions for me for the purposes of this activity, especially helpful for testing out the value of piece activity vs. a slight material disadvantage.  I've disaster checked my main lines with a computer but please don't expect IdEA level analysis or "Chess Truth".  The whole exercise for me has been sitting down at a board first, computer second, to try and train my brain in these middle game situations Smiley

Huggy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #352 - 12/14/11 at 15:14:39
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 12/14/11 at 12:32:54:
PANFR wrote on 11/30/11 at 10:03:46:

Regarding 9.Nxe5- isn't Black supposed to be OK after 9...Qe6? Most top level games after it end in a draw, most recently Bologan- Svjaginsev.

I agree that 9...Qe6 is best. Or do you think 9...0-0 is better, Huggy?

Regarding the line 4.d3 ... 10.Na4! which I didn't like for Black (see two posts ago), does anybody see an improvement? If not, this may well become our repertoire suggestion against the Jaenisch. If it is true that 4.Nc3 is equal (which I still believe), there may be nothing better.


In Matei - Noble, 17...Qf7 seems worthy of consideration.  From the look of it however, I would rather be White.

Stefan, do you have some secrets you want to keep about 9.Nxe5 after 4.Nc3?  I don't think Huggy is coming back or even is reading your posts, so it seems pointless to call upon him any more.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #351 - 12/14/11 at 14:31:02
Post Tools
Stefan Buecker wrote on 12/14/11 at 12:32:54:
PANFR wrote on 11/30/11 at 10:03:46:

Regarding 9.Nxe5- isn't Black supposed to be OK after 9...Qe6? Most top level games after it end in a draw, most recently Bologan- Svjaginsev.

I agree that 9...Qe6 is best. Or do you think 9...0-0 is better, Huggy?

Regarding the line 4.d3 ... 10.Na4! which I didn't like for Black (see two posts ago), does anybody see an improvement? If not, this may well become our repertoire suggestion against the Jaenisch. If it is true that 4.Nc3 is equal (which I still believe), there may be nothing better.



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #350 - 12/14/11 at 12:32:54
Post Tools
PANFR wrote on 11/30/11 at 10:03:46:

Regarding 9.Nxe5- isn't Black supposed to be OK after 9...Qe6? Most top level games after it end in a draw, most recently Bologan- Svjaginsev.

I agree that 9...Qe6 is best. Or do you think 9...0-0 is better, Huggy?

Regarding the line 4.d3 ... 10.Na4! which I didn't like for Black (see two posts ago), does anybody see an improvement? If not, this may well become our repertoire suggestion against the Jaenisch. If it is true that 4.Nc3 is equal (which I still believe), there may be nothing better.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #349 - 12/09/11 at 01:52:57
Post Tools
His post was obnoxious, but I think he's right that 9...Qe8 or 9...Kh8 are improvements over 9...a6, given that after other moves White often plays Bc4 and a3 anyway. 

In spite of Black's superb score from the position I still think White's position is easier to play. I don't know if it's enough for an objective edge.
  
All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #348 - 12/08/11 at 23:13:05
Post Tools
I am not so worried about 6.Be3 Nxe4, it looks complicated, but not necessarily bad for Black. However, the following correspondence game seems more troubling. In spite of its peaceful outcome I don't like it. Instead of 19.Nb4?, White could play 19.Kh1 and remain a pawn ahead. - True, 10. Na4 is rare (it seems the idea was never repeated), and there is some compensation, but probably not enough. Am I overlooking something? 

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #347 - 12/08/11 at 02:46:46
Post Tools
I deleted some obnoxious posts. People, post in a friendly vein or not at all. I won't countenance anyone's denegration of somebody else's ideas. Just talk chess, and do it politely.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #346 - 12/08/11 at 02:30:18
Post Tools
Still busy boxing books. But:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6 Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Qxe5 d6 10.Qxf6 Bxf6 11.d3 0-0 12.Nd2 d5 13.f3. 

"Maybe best", as I said above - but Black equalizes. 

13...c5. 13...a5!?. 14.Kd1 Re8. Or 14...Be5 15.Rb1 Bd6. 15.Re1

If 15.Rb1 Be5 16.b3 Bd6 17.Nf1 (17.Ba3 a5) 17...Rb8 18.Ng3 c4 =.

15...Rxe1+ 16.Kxe1 Bd7 17.Nf1 Rb8

Less clear: 17...Re8+ 18.Kd1 Bb5 19.a4! Ba6 (19...Bd7 20.Rb1) 20.Ne3 c6 23.Ng4.

18.Rb1 c4 19.dxc4 dxc4

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *

Black threatens Bf5, and neither 20.b3 Bf5 21.Ne3 Bg6 nor 20.Ne3 c3 21.b3 Re8! helps. 

20.Ng3 Be5 21.Be3 Bxb2 22.Ne2 c3 23.Bd4 Bf5 24.Bxc3 Bxc3+ 25.Nxc3 Rxb1+ 26.Nxb1 Bxc2 27.Nc3 Bd3 =.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 37
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge