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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C44: Goring Gambit (Read 21790 times)
walkingterrapin
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #25 - 07/30/11 at 02:12:43
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It is a real shame.  It seems most of the other lines offer white good chances.  But both Bb4 and d6 offer alot of resistance.
  
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MNb
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #24 - 07/29/11 at 10:09:41
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Some compensation after 11.Rxe5 Bxb5 12.Qxd8 Rxd8 13.Rxb5 means not enough compensation means that Black is just better. 13...b6 and White even hardly has a lead in development anymore.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Why play the Colle when
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #23 - 07/29/11 at 02:23:26
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After 11.Rxe5 Bxb5 12. Qxd8 Rxd8 13. Rxb5 is unclear as white still get some compensation for the pawn.  But unclear does not bode well for a white opening!!!!!  I am looking forward to getting DD and would enjoy more analysis on this wondering opening.  I have already played several blitz games with it at my club and have done very well. 
  
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Girkassa
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #22 - 07/28/11 at 21:13:41
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I see. I take back my comment that it looked unthreatening; I underestimated the dangers of e5. However, 11...Bxb5 seems to do the trick.

Note to myself: get hold of a corr database. According to my database, 6.Bb5 has never been played by anyone above 2100 in an OTB game, but it turns out that in many cases, strong corr players have played lines that no strong OTB player has played.
  
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MNb
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #21 - 07/28/11 at 15:21:57
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Ah, I hadn't understood that you meant to play 6.Bb5 after 5...d6. It's in DD: 11...Bxb5 is an improvement because of 12.Qe1 Bc4.

walkingterrapin wrote on 07/28/11 at 13:02:18:
Alright thanks MnB i think you just post it into a preview and then play the moves right?

Actually no. I just type pgn and /pgn, between the brackets [ and ] of course, and paste the moves in between. Then I post and check if everything is allright. Quite often 0-0 has to changed into O-O.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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fling
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #20 - 07/28/11 at 15:04:01
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walkingterrapin wrote on 07/28/11 at 13:02:18:
Alright thanks MnB i think you just post it into a preview and then play the moves right?

Here is the game regardless 





Here is how it works. When you post something, you have a button in the top middle, right under the subject line, that says PGN. You click on it, and anything you put in between the two tags "pgn" and "/pgn" will end up as a Chessflash board.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Why play the Colle when
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #19 - 07/28/11 at 13:02:56
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Hard to see where black can really improve his play I assume castling was probably wrong, but then you are going to find your king stuff in the center for a little while.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Why play the Colle when
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #18 - 07/28/11 at 13:02:18
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Alright thanks MnB i think you just post it into a preview and then play the moves right?



Here is the game regardless 



[White "Kammerer"]
[Black Habedank "]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "33"]
[TimeControl "240+2"]

{1024MB, RybkaII.ctg
} 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. c3 dxc3 5. Nxc3 d6 6.
Bb5 Bd7 7. O-O Be7 8. Re1 Nf6 9. e5 Nxe5 10. Nxe5 dxe5 11. Rxe5 O-O 12. Bxd7
Nxd7 13. Rd5 Bd6 14. Bg5 Qb8 15. Ne4 Nb6 16. Nf6+ Kh8 17. Qh5 *

  
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MNb
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #17 - 07/28/11 at 12:16:43
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walkingterrapin wrote on 07/28/11 at 06:13:01:
I would be interested in it. 

It's a function of the site: pgn and /pgn. Click on quote and you'll see how it works.
It agree with Girkassa that 6.Bb5 doesn't make much sense. The weakness of f7 is part of White's compensation.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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walkingterrapin
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Why play the Colle when
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #16 - 07/28/11 at 12:14:04
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The Line Bb5 is the Ken Smith book.  He lists several lines and another game as well where black tries to fianchetto the Bishop on move 7.  If you use the database on chesslive there are several corr games with this opening.
  
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Girkassa
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #15 - 07/28/11 at 08:38:35
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So you would like to put your bishop on b5 instead of c4? That looks completely unthreatening to me. I can't find the Kammerer-Habedank game, but following sound development with ...Be7, ...Nf6, ...0-0, it seems to me that Black is a healthy pawn up.

It resembles a Spanish, perhaps, but in the Spanish, two important reasons the bishop is well placed on b5 are that it puts pressure on the e5 pawn and that it supports White's d4. In this case, however, Black has no pawn on e5 and White has no d-pawn.

In any case, I doubt you will find any mention of 6.Bb5 in DD or any other Goring book.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Why play the Colle when
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #14 - 07/28/11 at 06:13:01
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I agree and I want to purchase the DD book soon.  I am trying to get a good start in the opening first.  I always prefer castling in positions like the ones mentioned.

In the line 
1. e4 e5 
2. Nf3 Nc6 
3. d4 ed 
4. c3 dc
5. Nc3 d6
6. Bb5 looks good for white.  It seems like a spanish game with black being forced into a tight space.  White will get in a quick e5 soon.   

Kammerer-Habedank 1982 is a good example of the play.   

On a side note MnB where did you get that flash chess from?  I would be interested in it.
  
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MNb
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #13 - 07/27/11 at 18:42:04
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Markovich wrote on 07/27/11 at 16:24:50:
After 5.Nxf3 Bb4 6.Bc4, Black should play 6...Bxc3+!, I opine.

I am with JediKnight here. As White I'd rather play 6...Bxc3+?! 7.bxc3 d6 8.Ng5 than 6...d6 7.Qb3 Bxc3+ 8.Qxc3. I don't see White's compensation after Qf6 9.Qb3 as White plays a few moves too many with Her Majesty.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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SWJediknight
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #12 - 07/27/11 at 17:17:21
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The potential issue with 6...Bxc3+ is the deviation 7.bxc3 d6 8.Ng5, e.g. 8...Ne5 9.Bb3 h6 10.f4 Bg4 11.Qd4, or 8...Nh6 9.0-0 0-0 10.f4 Na5 11.Bd3 (improving on the 11.Be2 of Thiele-Van Perlo, correspondence 1984).  I think White has decent compensation there.  I'm not sure about White's compensation after 6...d6 7.Ng5 Nh6 (instead of 7...Bxc3+ transposing).
  
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Re: C44: Goring Gambit
Reply #11 - 07/27/11 at 16:24:50
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MNb wrote on 07/27/11 at 10:42:35:
SWJediknight wrote on 07/27/11 at 10:23:43:
I agree with much of MNb's analysis there, though I think in the 5.Nxc3 Bb4 6.Bc4 d6 line, 7.Qb3 is almost certainly a better move-order than 7.0-0.

Analysis is too strong a word; it's more a very small summary of the contents of Danish Dynamite. The reason I'm not entirely sure if 7.Qb3 is better indeed is that I never looked at 8...Qd7 9.Ng5.


After 5.Nxf3 Bb4 6.Bc4, Black should play 6...Bxc3+!, I opine.
  
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