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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire (Read 22682 times)
MartinC
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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #29 - 09/03/11 at 08:52:53
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But castling does avoid blundering you kingside pawns Wink Black surely hardly ever goes o-o after 6.. Qa5 -> a4? Personally I don't understand why anyone ever castle queenside in the Winaver as black Smiley 

Mind you the lines I use in after 7..o-o (8.. Nc6, Qc7 and 11.... Nce7) is dependent on a massive sea of very random tactics to hang together, so could be 'fun' vs specifically prepared players. 8.. f5 is rather more rational of course.
  
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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #28 - 09/03/11 at 03:29:31
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I'm with Moskalenko on 7...O-O. After castling the King is not safe yet, just like the line afte 6...Qc7 I mentioned. Moreover Black's counterplay usually begins with ...Qa5 at some point. Then it makes sense to me to play it at an earlier stage without exposing the King to White's attacking schemes.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #27 - 09/03/11 at 02:43:53
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Also there is the 7...0-0 Winawer. It can lead to relatively sharp but balanced positions if you neither enjoy an extremely positional game nor an extremely sharp game (7...Qc7). There are enough lines within the Winawer complex for a viable French repertoire.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #26 - 09/01/11 at 12:16:02
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7...a6

Karjakin-So.

Safely equal the whole way. So not breaking sweat there.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1633466
  
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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #25 - 09/01/11 at 01:16:11
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BPaulsen wrote on 08/31/11 at 11:03:54:
Oh, you're using the 7...a6 lines. I'm a considerably bigger fan of 7...cxd4, and that's the perspective I come from. I even like 7...Be7 more than 7...a6.

No, not present tense, but past tense. You just convinced me to stick to the Winawer.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #24 - 08/31/11 at 11:03:54
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Oh, you're using the 7...a6 lines. I'm a considerably bigger fan of 7...cxd4, and that's the perspective I come from. I even like 7...Be7 more than 7...a6.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #23 - 08/31/11 at 09:09:18
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BPaulsen wrote on 08/31/11 at 04:40:12:
What particular line did you get posed problems in?

4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 b5 9.h4 b4 10.Na4 Qa5 11.Nxc5 Nxc5 12.dxc5 Bxc5 13.Bxc5 Qxc5 14.h5 h6 15.Qf2 and here I lost after Qe7 16.o-o-o a5 17.f5 o-o 18.Bb5. After 15...Qa5 Black is allright and has decent counterplay.
I lost another game after 9.Be2 b4 10.Nd1 a5 11.c4 but won one after 9.g3 thanks to White's abysmal play.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #22 - 08/31/11 at 04:46:30
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Nikita76 wrote on 08/31/11 at 03:23:35:

This is the point: I was looking for promising ways and winning chances in semi-opened games. After having discarded the C-K (surely worse than the French even if played in an aggressive mode as Schandorff suggests), I've been studying the French and his main positions, then I asked for experts suggestions here. 
I came to the conclusion that if you feel OK to fight only for a draw you should play 3...Nf6, otherwise you must play the Classical Winawer (PP) and going all-in.


Winawer PP can easily result in quiet equality as well, despite the initial all-in nature of play. It reminds me of the Najdorf PP in that respect.

Quote:

My conclusion: c6 X; e6 X; c5 & e5 are my friends by now  Cool 


Keep in mind you're not going to be able to get your cake and eat it too. If whatever you pick has flawless theoretical standing then it's always going to have very drawish white options somewhere along the way.

Part of picking an effective back-up is recognizing it's not going to be bulletproof theoretically, and that your goal is to surprise your opponent to offset that problem.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #21 - 08/31/11 at 04:40:12
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MNb wrote on 08/31/11 at 02:30:54:

Even though one game began with 4.e5 and another with 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7


Losing after 4. Bg5 Be7 isn't unusual. I've said my piece about that line on here just recently.

4. e5 is another matter. Black should be able to escape death easier there.

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I lost twice in similar ways: I played a la the Sicilian with ..a6 and b5, White castled short, I had equalized, thought I could initiate more counterplay on the Queenside and got mated. That was very depressing.


When white castles short black has to limit his ambitions to equality barring a major white error. That's also the downside to white's chosen method of play - white has also limited his own ambitions.

At one point I was writing an e-book that gets into this very issue, but stopped writing it because Watson is supposed to do a 4th "Play the French" in the near future, and the French market is oversaturated as it is right now. Maybe one of the books will get into the significant differences between white playing 0-0-0 and 0-0 beyond the superficial stuff like black is less likely to get mated.

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Note 2: my memory deceives me for the zillionth time. I actually lost three games with 3...Nf6. In an older one White castled Queenside and still my counterplay came too late.


Being a correspondence player so long as you have the correct theoretical antidotes that really shouldn't ever happen.

What particular line did you get posed problems in? The only line that has opposite-sided castling that requires black to think outside the box a little is when white plays Nb3 (if black knows the idea even that's easy to handle). Other than that, so long as black doesn't push his luck there it shouldn't be a problem.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #20 - 08/31/11 at 03:23:35
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BPaulsen wrote on 08/31/11 at 00:52:11:
Post was directed at Nikita76, not you. The problem with 3. Nc3 Nf6 is winning chances, not so much anything particularly dangerous white has. By the time black solves his problems there is typically very little left to play for in the critical variations. This is good theoretically, but very poor practically when you need to beat someone lower rated.

Typically the back-up opening one keeps in a repertoire is supposed to preserve winning chances, in which case Nikita's headaches make more sense. However, back-up openings tend to not be theoretically bulletproof due to the need to unbalance the position, so I'm not sure how pointing out things like the Portisch-Hook Winawer being under pressure means much.


This is the point: I was looking for promising ways and winning chances in semi-opened games. After having discarded the C-K (surely worse than the French even if played in an aggressive mode as Schandorff suggests), I've been studying the French and his main positions, then I asked for experts suggestions here. 
I came to the conclusion that if you feel OK to fight only for a draw you should play 3...Nf6, otherwise you must play the Classical Winawer (PP) and going all-in. Since it is not so practical vs lower rated (cause forced lines) and not the best for a tournament perspective I decided to abandon this 1...e6 idea. 
If I wanted to unbalanced or equalize with less risk, I'd play the Sicilian Nadjorf (as I already successfully do) and stay away from such lines. 
The game is not worth the candle!
My conclusion: c6 X; e6 X; c5 & e5 are my friends by now  Cool 

  
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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #19 - 08/31/11 at 02:30:54
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BPaulsen wrote on 08/31/11 at 00:52:11:
Post was directed at Nikita76, not you.

I know; I still took the liberty to answer. That's what a forum is for.

BPaulsen wrote on 08/31/11 at 00:52:11:
The problem with 3. Nc3 Nf6 is winning chances, not so much anything particularly dangerous white has. By the time black solves his problems there is typically very little left to play for in the critical variations.

Even though one game began with 4.e5 and another with 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7 I lost twice in similar ways: I played a la the Sicilian with ..a6 and b5, White castled short, I had equalized, thought I could initiate more counterplay on the Queenside and got mated. That was very depressing.
At the other hand in my last four games with the Winawer I equalized, did not get too much counterplay but did not get mated either.
Now I wonder what this tells about my (lacking) chess skills, because I realize very well this is more or less contrary to the general view on 3...Nf6 and 3...Bb4. So this makes me quite insecure. Do I understand zilch about the French? But why do I have such fine results against the Tarrasch and the Advance then? If it weren't for this (and because I want to play 1.d4 e6) I would have given up the French long ago.
At least I understand that I'm not a typical Frenchie, whatever that may mean.

Note: I do know now what I did wrong in those two 3...Nf6 games. That doesn't solve the mystery though: I am tempted to return to 3...Nf6 in order to create more winning chances as Black!

Note 2: my memory deceives me for the zillionth time. I actually lost three games with 3...Nf6. In an older one White castled Queenside and still my counterplay came too late.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #18 - 08/31/11 at 00:52:11
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Post was directed at Nikita76, not you. The problem with 3. Nc3 Nf6 is winning chances, not so much anything particularly dangerous white has. By the time black solves his problems there is typically very little left to play for in the critical variations. This is good theoretically, but very poor practically when you need to beat someone lower rated.

Typically the back-up opening one keeps in a repertoire is supposed to preserve winning chances, in which case Nikita's headaches make more sense. However, back-up openings tend to not be theoretically bulletproof due to the need to unbalance the position, so I'm not sure how pointing out things like the Portisch-Hook Winawer being under pressure means much.
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #17 - 08/31/11 at 00:15:50
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BPaulsen wrote on 08/30/11 at 23:26:37:
I'm not sure where the supposed headaches are supposed to be in 3. Nc3 Nf6,

In my results in actual games.

BPaulsen wrote on 08/30/11 at 23:26:37:
unless you were totally dedicated to the idea of the Winawer because you've decided on winning-chances-at-all-costs for the "Ultimate Repertoire".

As I wrote before I use of the Winawer to avoid losing.  Smiley
  

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #16 - 08/30/11 at 23:26:37
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I'm not sure where the supposed headaches are supposed to be in 3. Nc3 Nf6, unless you were totally dedicated to the idea of the Winawer because you've decided on winning-chances-at-all-costs for the "Ultimate Repertoire".
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

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Re: C00-C19: An Ultimate French Repertoire
Reply #15 - 08/30/11 at 03:04:58
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My main weapon is Sicilian Najdorf, but in these days I am seriously thinking to not choose the French as my second one. Actually 3. Nc3 is giving me hard times and causing too many headaches, maybe it's time to study the more correct 1...e5 although my first intention was to have a semi-open + 1...c5.
  
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