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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) white try to avoid tarrash (Read 14199 times)
Markovich
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #15 - 09/26/11 at 00:59:38
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/22/11 at 19:09:00:
Yes, White can indeed avoid the Tarrasch: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.cd5 ed5 4.Bf4 (for example). 

Granted, that's not exactly a move order I'd recommend, but it does serve to avoid most of the Tarrasch lines. (There are a few ways to transpose even from that early Exchange variation, but White should be able to choose something that's non-standard.


Well, what I meant was that White can't avoid the Tarrasch if he doesn't want to hand Black equality on a silver platter. I dont give much credit either to White's playing c4 and then refusing to take on d5, although that certainly is a game of chess.
  
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Markovich
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #14 - 09/26/11 at 00:55:12
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piefr1 wrote on 09/22/11 at 18:22:47:
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.Nf6 Nc6 5. e3 ( is the guy trying to transpose into something) i 've got to play Nf6 here 

here 6.a3 will be played or 6.bd3 or 6.be2  

Obviously he wants to play with the isolated pawn himself ! and i don't want to ...  

Cry

This is what Tarrasch called the Normal Variation, and the name stuck. There's a lot of theory devoted to it, but it's just a game of chess.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #13 - 09/24/11 at 15:02:25
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piefr1 wrote on 09/24/11 at 11:16:08:
I guess i can transpose into a QGA by playing 5. ....dxc4 after 

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.Nf3 Nc6 5. e3 or play 5. ...Nf6 first  and then dxc4


Black's efforts to avoid the Tarrasch are a bit easier to prove. Lips Sealed
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #12 - 09/24/11 at 14:58:48
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...dc seems to be suboptimal if White hasn't moved his bishop (such as after 5...Nf6 6. a3, which is an old main line).
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #11 - 09/24/11 at 11:16:08
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I guess i can transpose into a QGA by playing 5. ....dxc4 after 

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.Nf3 Nc6 5. e3 or play 5. ...Nf6 first  and then dxc4
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #10 - 09/23/11 at 14:33:40
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TN wrote on 09/23/11 at 00:56:23:
The line you give that avoids the Tarrasch still leads to a Semi-Tarrasch.

That's new to me. I always thought that the Semi-Tarrasch begun with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 c5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 which after 6.g3 obviously doesn't even transpose as White refuses to exchange on d5 in the line I gave.
But that's just labeling. My point was that White can avoid the Tarrasch indeed.
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #9 - 09/23/11 at 00:56:23
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MNb wrote on 09/22/11 at 23:15:21:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/22/11 at 19:09:00:
Yes, White can indeed avoid the Tarrasch: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.cd5 ed5 4.Bf4

Really? Isn't a transposition likely after 4...Nf6 and 5...c5 ?
White can avoid the Tarrasch by refusing to exchange on d5: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.g3 c5 5.Bg2 Nc6 6.O-O Be7 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.a3.
Black can deviate from this sequence too. Ametanoitos is going to recommend that in his forthcoming book. I have forgotten how exactly. Also I have forgotten if White can make an impact by postponing d2-d4, ie with the English/Réti.


White can avoid the Tarrasch with 2.c4 e6 3.c5 or 3.e4 but such moves do not deserve analysis. 

The line you give that avoids the Tarrasch still leads to a Semi-Tarrasch. 

In the English/Reti lines I think Black should be able to equalise in the ...d4 lines, though this is a subject for the Flank Openings section.
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #8 - 09/23/11 at 00:44:26
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/22/11 at 19:09:00:
Yes, White can indeed avoid the Tarrasch: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.cd5 ed5 4.Bf4 (for example). 

Granted, that's not exactly a move order I'd recommend, but it does serve to avoid most of the Tarrasch lines. (There are a few ways to transpose even from that early Exchange variation, but White should be able to choose something that's non-standard.


If White tries to play only Bf4 eventually one of the knights has to be moved? I do not think White can strive for advantage without a Nc3 and/or Nf3. And if I remember correctly I think Ametanoitos will cover Nf3 without Nc3 in the book last time I asked him on the Quality Chess forum.
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #7 - 09/22/11 at 23:15:21
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/22/11 at 19:09:00:
Yes, White can indeed avoid the Tarrasch: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.cd5 ed5 4.Bf4

Really? Isn't a transposition likely after 4...Nf6 and 5...c5 ?
White can avoid the Tarrasch by refusing to exchange on d5: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.g3 c5 5.Bg2 Nc6 6.O-O Be7 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.a3.
Black can deviate from this sequence too. Ametanoitos is going to recommend that in his forthcoming book. I have forgotten how exactly. Also I have forgotten if White can make an impact by postponing d2-d4, ie with the English/Réti.
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #6 - 09/22/11 at 19:09:00
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Yes, White can indeed avoid the Tarrasch: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.cd5 ed5 4.Bf4 (for example). 

Granted, that's not exactly a move order I'd recommend, but it does serve to avoid most of the Tarrasch lines. (There are a few ways to transpose even from that early Exchange variation, but White should be able to choose something that's non-standard.
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #5 - 09/22/11 at 18:48:09
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At some point one needs to be flexible/you can't always get what you want.  Take an example from e.g. Florin Gheorghiu, who liked to play such Semi-Tarraschy IQP positions for both sides.
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #4 - 09/22/11 at 18:22:47
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1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.Nf6 Nc6 5. e3 ( is the guy trying to transpose into something) i 've got to play Nf6 here 

here 6.a3 will be played or 6.bd3 or 6.be2   

Obviously he wants to play with the isolated pawn himself ! and i don't want to ...   

Cry
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #3 - 09/22/11 at 17:38:54
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White can't avoid the Tarrasch if he wants to play c2-c4.  He can get a Tarrasch with out his QN yet on c3, though.  That shouldn't be a big deal for Black.

Obviously as a Tarrasch player you have to know what to do against the Colle, etc.
  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #2 - 09/22/11 at 17:20:20
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I'm realizing i just don't understand positionnal play.
The nimzo is helping me understand that fact ! unfortunately i feel very lost when i go thru nimzo games... i will keep looking at the nimzo to progress but i will take back my tarrash for otb and blitz games right now.

But here my question was  : can white avoid the tarrash ( i know they can with the catalan with dxc5 but is there a other way to avoid it after 1.d4 

  
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Re: white try to avoid tarrash
Reply #1 - 09/22/11 at 14:47:29
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Don't forget the Nimzo and Bogo which you had taken up as of last week ...
  
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