ChessPub Forum - Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack??

ErictheRed God Member Offline USCF National Master Posts: 2534 Location: USA Joined: 10/02/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #21 - 07/27/12 at 21:32:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 07/26/12 at 20:54:51: ErictheRed wrote on 07/26/12 at 19:44:15: Huh, is that trendy again? I've been playing it since Gallagher's old book The Saemisch King's Indian. Chess fashion really does move in cycles! I was referring to 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 0-0 6. Be3 Nc6 7. Nge2 a6 8. Qd2 Rb8 9. Rc1; I wonder if you're talking about with the bishop on g5 (I thought you were an aficionado of that) ... I've actually played both but that makes sense; it took longer for 6.Be3 and 9.Rc1 to catch on. Anyway sorry to get off topic...


	IP Logged

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #20 - 07/26/12 at 20:54:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	ErictheRed wrote on 07/26/12 at 19:44:15: Huh, is that trendy again? I've been playing it since Gallagher's old book The Saemisch King's Indian. Chess fashion really does move in cycles! I was referring to 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 0-0 6. Be3 Nc6 7. Nge2 a6 8. Qd2 Rb8 9. Rc1; I wonder if you're talking about with the bishop on g5 (I thought you were an aficionado of that) ...


	IP Logged

ErictheRed God Member Offline USCF National Master Posts: 2534 Location: USA Joined: 10/02/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #19 - 07/26/12 at 19:44:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 07/26/12 at 16:34:08: OT, but I have the impression that the KID section is also a good source on the trendy (well, maybe beyond trendy) 9. Rc1 in the Sämisch Panno, to which Giri today turned as White (alas in a losing effort) against Wang Hao (who played that other "Van Wely line" game as White against Bacrot) ... Huh, is that trendy again? I've been playing it since Gallagher's old book The Saemisch King's Indian. Chess fashion really does move in cycles!


	IP Logged

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #18 - 07/26/12 at 16:34:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	OT, but I have the impression that the KID section is also a good source on the trendy (well, maybe beyond trendy) 9. Rc1 in the Sämisch Panno, to which Giri today turned as White (alas in a losing effort) against Wang Hao (who played that other "Van Wely line" game as White against Bacrot) ...


	IP Logged

Claus Jensen Junior Member Offline I Love Chess! Posts: 72 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Joined: 08/15/11 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #17 - 07/26/12 at 05:36:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm a subscriber to the KID section and there are several annotated games in the Van Wely variation Vigorito call's 10.g3 white's most dangerous alternative to 10.Re1 in his book "Attacking Chess: The King's Indian"

	Claus Jensen http://www.clausjensen.com 150+ annotated chess videos
	WWW IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #16 - 07/26/12 at 04:23:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	The official Biel site has the video interview with Giri. His preparation was very impressive. He created a novelty on move 25 after studying correspondence games and Van Wely-Bacrot. He said that with best play, Black could probably draw in one line. But even so, I think we will see much more of 10.g3 with f3 to follow.


	IP Logged

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #15 - 07/26/12 at 03:27:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	Giri: "Managed to win a nice game today after Bacrot reacted badly to my new, but pretty harmless idea." I kind of like the idea that the old (pre-1995 or so) main move may be the "hot new line."


	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #14 - 07/25/12 at 17:28:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	10,g3 has scored two out of two for white in the Biel tournament. Giri just beat Bacrot with it. This may be the hot new line!


	IP Logged

GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3192 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #13 - 10/31/11 at 12:41:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	notyetagm wrote on 10/18/11 at 00:54:22: Where can I go to find out information about what GM Baburin in Chess Today 3996 calls the "Van Wely Variation" of the Bayonet Attack, 10 g3 ? Difficult to imagine a better source of information than the main site ChessPublishing.com, assuming you are subscribed to the KID section. I'm surprised that no-one thought to mention it, too obvious, perhaps?


	WWW Facebook Twitter IP Logged

MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2115 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #12 - 10/31/11 at 09:16:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	Just Re1 surely? Whites knight almost always ends up on g5 (on its way to e6) so an extra tempo when that happens isn't going to hurt him! Suppose you could try 10 .. Bh3 11 Re1 h6 or some such. Slow, and still a real risk of the h3 bishop getting swapped off.


	IP Logged

F22 Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 306 Joined: 07/16/09 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #11 - 10/30/11 at 21:15:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	That is an interesting line and van Wely's record is quite impressive: +12 - 6 = 4 or about 64%. But what is the refutation of 10. ... Bh3 ? Everyone plays 10. ... f5.


	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #10 - 10/30/11 at 08:10:00	Post Tools	Print Post
	Perhaps it's unfair of me, but I tried it out in a couple of blitz games and won handily. It seems to have several things going for it: It seems not to have been analysed to death by the KID specialists on ICC (and by inference, the generic OTB player rated ~2200) Apparently, it really does slow down Black's K-side attack, and when that happens Black often can't come up with a coherent plan (the top-flight games already mentioned in this thread show how Black almost breaks through, but seems to be just a bit short in terms of speed and force.) It gave me (the White side) the sort of psychological boost I often feel I'm competing against when my opponents play their pet KID variations. I haven't decided yet, but I may well try this out in a serious OTB game soon.


	IP Logged

Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #9 - 10/29/11 at 23:18:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	I dont play th g3 line myself. But the way Van Wely puts away a guy rated at least a 100 point above is impressive every time. Though I must add that if I know my opponent plays this line I dont play a KID.

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
	IP Logged

Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #8 - 10/29/11 at 00:26:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yeah. In lieu of a Kramnik-Radjabov theoretical debate on the merits of the KID Bayonet, we at least have Van Wely-Radjabov. And apparently, we'll have it again next year at Wijk aan Zee. Despite Kramnik's experiment with g3, I'm still not sure about whether to spend the time adding that to my repertoire. It just feels like a very temporary fix.


	IP Logged

Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #7 - 10/19/11 at 10:57:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	notyetagm wrote on 10/18/11 at 00:56:46: Here is probably Van Wely's most important win in this line, against World #1 KID player Radjabov: Iirc he did that with Radjabov a couple of years in a row at Corus.

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
	IP Logged

BPaulsen God Member Offline I Love Light Squares! Posts: 1702 Location: Anaheim, CA, USA Joined: 11/02/08 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #6 - 10/19/11 at 10:13:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm going to take a stab at the reason for this particular deviation (although it doesn't explain all deviations). Kramnik is an expert, if the not the biggest expert, of the white side of the Bayonet (I think Gelfand and Van Wely are the only others even close). He's obviously put in a ton of time checking all the sidelines for potential chances, and is aware that even the sidelines have real chances for black to go wrong - to a degree this is why the Bayonet still represents a strong practical try where black doesn't have the luxury of a theoretical tome next to him. The main lines may be mapped out to a satisfactory conclusion for black, but it is far from trivial to find all the right moves against an opponent that is an expert at the variation, has obviously checked the nuances for the sideline he chooses ahead of time, and has the skill to punish the slightest inaccuracy.

	2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE. FIDE based on just 27 games.
	YIM AIM IP Logged

fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #5 - 10/19/11 at 08:17:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	GabrielGale wrote on 10/18/11 at 23:10:28: Thanks for the thread. Learned another thing today. But after reading the thread, and then reading Chessvibes [http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/full-point-lead-for-kramnik-in-hoogeveen, noticed this (on the Crown Group of the Univé Tournament in Hoogeveen): What we don't know and sometimes will never know, is the reason why a top player deviates from the "main" line. Is it because he/she himself has found/failed to find an improvement for one side? Or because the opponent has played something in another line that seems suboptimal, or showed a lack of understanding of a detail, etc.? In this case, I have no idea why Kramnik deviated from the main paths.


	IP Logged

GabrielGale Senior Member Offline Who was Thursday? Posts: 471 Location: Sydney Joined: 02/28/08 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #4 - 10/18/11 at 23:10:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks for the thread. Learned another thing today. But after reading the thread, and then reading Chessvibes [http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/full-point-lead-for-kramnik-in-hoogeveen, noticed this (on the Crown Group of the Univé Tournament in Hoogeveen): Quote: In the first round, on Sunday, Kramnik defeated Giri in good style, but not in a 100% perfect game. His young, Dutch opponent showed he had guts by choosing the King's Indian (and not the Grünfeld, like in Dortmund earlier this year). If he wasn't already one of the greatest experts against the KID from the White side, Kramnik certainly is 'after Kazan'. The Russian must have spent many hours preparing for Teimour Radjabov's favourite opening, but during the Candidates the number one from Azerbaijan surprisingly went for the Queen's Gambit Declined. Instead of the usual 10.Re1, in the Bayonet Attack Kramnik chose an old favourite of Loek van Wely: 10.g3. Two moves later he deviated again from the main paths with 12.Bf3, and Giri quickly went astray. Kramnik reached a completely winning position, but then went wrong with 27.Bb2? where the simple 27.Rxb7 is more or less curtains. However, the Russian's position was so good that he kept a big advantage and won anyway. Annotations from Chessvibes: Download game in pgn format

	http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/ A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
	IP Logged

Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #3 - 10/18/11 at 13:22:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	Van Wely himself made one of Chessbase's new 60-minute video surveys, with a White Classical KID repertoire built around this line. Not at all detailed obviously, and he didn't look too well-prepared for the filming. But a useful starting point nonetheless. Btw. It could be dangerous to rely on Van Wely's win against Radjabov without also noting the later improvement by Stellwagen, below: Download game in pgn format In his video, Van Wely briefly mentions 24.Qe1 as a possible improvement. It's still an extremely complicated position and hard to say who is better without extensive analysis.

	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
	IP Logged

fling God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1591 Joined: 01/21/11 Gender:	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #2 - 10/18/11 at 07:32:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	This line is mentioned in Beat the KID - Jan Markos. I haven't looked at the KID for some time, but I know there is some newer books (and probably older too). Bologan and Vigorito, Gallagher might analyze the variation as well. I think I have seen some improvements for Black in this line.


	IP Logged

notyetagm Full Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 105 Location: Groton Joined: 06/14/05	Re: Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack?? Reply #1 - 10/18/11 at 00:56:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	Here is probably Van Wely's most important win in this line, against World #1 KID player Radjabov: Download game in pgn format


	IP Logged

notyetagm

Full Member

Offline

I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 105
Location: Groton
Joined: 06/14/05

Information on Van Wely line of Bayonet Attack??
10/18/11 at 00:54:22

Post Tools

Print Post

Hi all,

Where can I go to find out information about what GM Baburin in Chess Today 3996 calls the "Van Wely Variation" of the Bayonet Attack, 10 g3 ?

10 g2-g3

Van Wely seems to score quite well with it.

"10.g3

This line should be called the Van
Wely Variation, as the Dutchmen used
it many times with very good results" -- Baburin

Thanks

IP Logged