Markovich wrote on 10/31/11 at 06:46:24:

Maybe White isn't better, just that many Black players might not go ...c5 that early since they started with ...c6. I have to say that with the White bishop boxed in by e3, ...c5 does make sense even if it means a loss of tempo.

I will most likely go for ...Bg4 if faced with the Slav move order to get a bit more unbalanced game, but have also looked ...Bf5 when I want a bit more 'dull' option and for the Colle move order, as recommended by Cox by transposition.

White doesn't have to oblige with 4. e3 against the Noteboom move order, hence why I didn't bother mentioning it.

I know a few people (myself included) that prefer other fourth moves against the Notebooom, but will venture the Slow Slav against the typical Slav move order.

@emary: I'd struggle to believe 3. e3 c6 doesn't just result in roughly the same positions if black plays the ...Bg4 variations. Colle move orders don't strike me as particularly demanding.

On thread-topic: if given the choice of 4...Bg4 or 4...Bf5 I would choose 4...Bg4 every single time. I find it a lot easier in the 4...Bf5 variations to achieve some sort of abstract advantage that has future prospects from the white perspective, but it's a different story entirely from what I've seen in 4...Bg4. If I were writing a book from the black perspective it'd be dedicated to 4...Bg4.

Concerning 4...e6: 5. b3 has its own issues (5...c5 is more effective against it than it is against 5. Nbd2). I think concerning 5. Nbd2 the position Avrukh treats as okay for black owing to the Rc8-c7, Qa8 maneuver isn't without poison - white can play for something there. Maybe it's it's theoretically equal with perfect play from black, but if that's black's most incisive defense then white is still markedly easier to play as a practical matter.

The 4. e3 crowd needs to be wary of the Noteboom move order though. My confidence in white's prospects of the Slow-Slav transposition to a Stonewall is at an all-time low. I used to think white should have something, but black's been solving his problems in convincing fashion of late.

Zatara wrote on 10/30/11 at 02:27:34:


Vigus recommends 4 ...Bg4, but he hasn't analysed Avrukh's critical line. However, there seems to be an improvement on this one.

There is also always the Schlechter, which Ametanoitos states here at Chesspub is ok. I don't remember exactly the lines, but he has claimed an improvement for Black over Avrukh's variations.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 dc4 6.Bc4 c5 is a main line QGA. 

No one has mentioned 4...e6 5.b3, recommended by Avrukh in GM Repertoire. This move order is perhaps more accurate than 5.Nbd2 because if Black plays ...Be7, the queen's knight is better placed on c3 because Black's king's bishop does not control the e5-square. Only after ...Bd6 should White play Nbd2, so that White has enough pieces controlling e5 to play Ne5. 

Agree with the previous posters that the ...dc4/...b5 plan is imprecise, because White has not committed his queen's knight to c3.

My opinion is that 4...e6 is an inaccuracy since I feel White has very good chances of an advantage with 5.b3 or 5.Bd3 (not including the QGA transposition). On the other hand I haven't found even a smidgeon of an edge for White after 4...Bf5 or 4...Bg4.

Also white often can play a quick a4 which softens b5. If then b5-b4 then the mentioned Nd2-c4 is possible. ANd if not b4 then black can't play c6-c5. bxa4 is also not desirable. Look at some game examples in Chessbase and one will see the plans in actions in real games.

To better express my question here goes:
pg233 of vigorito's book he says:"Playing this way (with early e3 and not Nc3) also gives white some tricky options against the semi slav which does best to avoid.  In my opinion"  Then after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 Vigorito goes on with the issues after 4.e3 "This active move is the best way to exploit white's move 4...e6.  White has a couple of annoying options that I prefer to avoid such as 5.Nbd2 and 5. Bd3."  How are these (5.Nbd2 and 5.Bd3) differ from the meran???  can't black just play 5....Nbd7 and 6... Bd6/or dxc4 after 5.Nbd2 and 5.Bd3 respecfully.   
Hope this clarifies my question.   
Thanks,
Zatara

HI Everyone,
I am wondering about the line 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 why Bf5 or Bg4???  Why not 4...e6 5.Bd3 dxc4? 
thanks,
Zatara