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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Royalty (Read 13171 times)
MNb
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Re: Royalty
Reply #15 - 04/07/12 at 21:35:06
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/07/12 at 17:36:21:
the separation of head of state from head of government makes excellent sense.

But you don't need royalty for this. See Germany, one of the best functioning political systems ever. I'm a fan of the German political system anyway.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Royalty
Reply #14 - 04/07/12 at 17:36:21
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Nice, Taljechin!

From a political science perspective, the separation of head of state from head of government makes excellent sense. It makes so much sense that even in nations that abhor royalty, such as France, they elect a head of state and a head of government. 

The problem with electing a head of state is that it becomes a political title that can be as contentious as the head of government. 

The United Kingdom is lucky to have a royal family that has the historical function of head of state. Of course, the Brits aren't sure of this, especially in a time of economic hardship. A monarchy can survive with fewer luxuries. The Royal family would do well to cut back as much as possible on these. But they do serve a real political function.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Royalty
Reply #13 - 04/07/12 at 08:38:07
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I saw The Rockford Files yesterday, 'The Countessa' episode, and I think Jim Rockford sums it up well, when asked what he thinks of her title and he mentions a mobster he'd met:

"His business card said 'Independent contractor' then his name, and under that 'Hitman'. That's the only title that has ever impressed me."
  
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Re: Royalty
Reply #12 - 04/07/12 at 08:33:29
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Well yes only a small majority and then only really because they couldn't decide what else to do, but I still find it remarkable. The Australians seem so amazingly self confident in every other way!

Scotland has plenty of reasons to dislike the way they've been treated, but the royal families did unify a good hundred years before the countries formally did, and then by inviting the current Scottish monarch to take over the English throne.

So an independent Scotland would still by default retain the current UK royal family as head of state. Don't know what level of support for republicanism there is right now, but I'd guess maybe not so high.
  
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Re: Royalty
Reply #11 - 04/06/12 at 22:24:01
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Why do you think so?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Calton_Hill

The Scottish also have a few reasons to dislike the English royalty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Potato_Famine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowland_Clearances

Quote:
Scotland lost over 147,000 men in World War One - 20% of Britain's losses while only being 10% of the total British population.


The monarchists in Australia had in 1999 only a majority of 54,4 %.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Royalty
Reply #10 - 04/06/12 at 17:23:30
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Dunno, if the Australians haven't (how?!!?) then I struggle to hold out hope for somewhere like Scotland! 

Especially since they are 'genuinely' the royal family of Scotland too rather than it coming via conquest. A putative independent Wales might be a different matter.
  
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MNb
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Re: Royalty
Reply #9 - 04/06/12 at 17:06:55
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Markovich wrote on 04/06/12 at 03:37:17:
What is it about rich people wearing tiaras and ermine that excites admiration in anyone, instead of laughter?

I have no idea - it mainly causes boredom with me.

Markovich wrote on 04/06/12 at 03:37:17:
And what does all this bowing and curtsying really do but foster the deeply obnoxious notion that some people are just naturally our "betters?"

Nothing.

Markovich wrote on 04/06/12 at 10:28:12:
But I read that if Scotland becomes independent, it will still be nominally ruled by the Queen.

This is temporary I guess, mainly to accomodate some royalty admirers. Quite a lot of ex-colonies have said her goodbuy.

Markovich wrote on 04/06/12 at 10:28:12:
at least they had the good sense to declare a republic.

The Irish have a few good reasons to dislike English royalty, like some famines. I guess that makes a difference.

Btw some calculations show that a monarchy costs much less than presidency Russian, French and American style.
So why not learn something from Dutch history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Stadtholderless_Period

Worked pretty well.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Royalty
Reply #8 - 04/06/12 at 15:43:41
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Antillian wrote on 04/06/12 at 15:32:24:
Yes, but none of these countries would be likely to replace the British royal family with their own royal family.  They would more likely instead simply adopt a non executive presidency, whose office would be no more costly than that of the Governor General. So comparing the costs of having a royal family is not very relevant.

Probably true, though some former English colonies are known to have made it a lot more expensive...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Royalty
Reply #7 - 04/06/12 at 15:32:24
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Willempie wrote on 04/06/12 at 15:12:50:

I think that catering for a governor and his family is a lot cheaper than doing so for the royal family. You also miss out on the big costs for weddings, funerals and the likes. I know in the Dutch Antilles they have one as well and that is a real cheapskate in comparison. Costs are more like that of an embassador.


Yes, but none of these countries would be likely to replace the British royal family with their own royal family.  They would more likely instead simply adopt a non executive presidency, whose office would be no more costly than that of the Governor General. So comparing the costs of having a royal family is not very relevant.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Royalty
Reply #6 - 04/06/12 at 15:12:50
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Antillian wrote on 04/06/12 at 14:49:52:
Commonwealth countries don't save any move by keeping the queen as head of state, since the queen is represented by a locally appointed Governor- General. And that office has all the trappings and expenses of a head of state. 

But I suppose one could argue that the change would bring about some one time significant costs, associated with renaming of a whole bunch of  institutions with names like "Royal...." and "Her majesty's...", and related relabelling of uniforms, insignia etc.

I think that catering for a governor and his family is a lot cheaper than doing so for the royal family. You also miss out on the big costs for weddings, funerals and the likes. I know in the Dutch Antilles they have one as well and that is a real cheapskate in comparison. Costs are more like that of an embassador.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Royalty
Reply #5 - 04/06/12 at 14:49:52
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Willempie wrote on 04/06/12 at 14:31:48:

Seriously though the same goes for Australia, Canada and some others. Saves money on a head of state since the Brits (and after Scottish independence the Welsh and English) are paying for it.


Commonwealth countries don't save any move by keeping the queen as head of state, since the queen is represented by a locally appointed Governor- General. And that office has all the trappings and expenses of a head of state. 

But I suppose one could argue that the change would bring about some one time significant costs, associated with renaming of a whole bunch of  institutions with names like "Royal...." and "Her majesty's...", and related relabelling of uniforms, insignia etc.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Royalty
Reply #4 - 04/06/12 at 14:31:48
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Markovich wrote on 04/06/12 at 10:28:12:
But I read that if Scotland becomes independent, it will still be nominally ruled by the Queen.  This strikes me as complete joke.  We very independent-minded and special Scots are going to have our very own government, but we're still going to k--s the Royal a--!?  And Balmoral will remain Royal property!? 

They're Scots, it is probably cheaper Wink

Seriously though the same goes for Australia, Canada and some others. Saves money on a head of state since the Brits (and after Scottish independence the Welsh and English) are paying for it.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Royalty
Reply #3 - 04/06/12 at 11:02:13
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Prince Edward and Princess Sophie recently visited my country as part of the celebration of the Queen's diamond jubilee. They visited the  music school where my daughter does violin lessons. The most excited person there that day was my daughter's American violin teacher. She was totally besides herself saying over and over "I can't believe I met royalty, I can't believe I met royalty"
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Royalty
Reply #2 - 04/06/12 at 10:28:12
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That's pretty funny, considering how so many Americans, particularly women, are fascinated by British royalty.  You would think this country had no history.

But I read that if Scotland becomes independent, it will still be nominally ruled by the Queen.  This strikes me as complete joke.  We very independent-minded and special Scots are going to have our very own government, but we're still going to k--s the Royal a--!?  And Balmoral will remain Royal property!?   

I am no great admirer of how the Irish govern themselves, but at least they had the good sense to declare a republic.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Royalty
Reply #1 - 04/06/12 at 08:03:06
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Some of us would gladly ship them out if we could find anyone interested. America perhaps ?
  
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