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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence (Read 22800 times)
Sisyphus
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #16 - 06/04/12 at 08:57:12
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The White idea indeed takes to much time. Case closed  Cheesy
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #15 - 06/01/12 at 04:07:43
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Sisyphus wrote on 05/31/12 at 11:50:28:
Fllg wrote on 05/25/12 at 16:34:50:
Sisyphus wrote on 05/25/12 at 08:22:14:
[quote author=5F55555E190 link=1336993844/10#10 date=1337875405]How can Black save the knight after 7...Be7 8.h4 (with the idea g3, Nfg1, f3)? I would not be happy facing this position with Black OTB.
Shocked


Hm, it seems to me all the fun is with Black after something like 7...Be7 8.h4 0-0 9.g3 Na5 10.Nfg1 c5 when 11.f3 cxd4 12.fxe4 dxe4 13.Bb5 a6 14.Ba4 b5 15.Bb3 Bc5 offers tremendous compensation for the piece. Would you be happy with White here?


After 9...Na5 White plays 10.c3 c5 11.a3 when the 'threat' to capture the knight remains.


I think if you're still worried about that Knight you might be better off trying another defence.  I'm thinking of either 1...e5 or perhaps French setups with an early ...c5.   
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #14 - 05/31/12 at 16:36:47
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I don´t think White has even time to think about trapping the knight after something like 11.a3 cxd4 12.cxd4 Qb6 with pressure against d4 and potentially f2. It seems to me as Black already has the initiative here.
  
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Sisyphus
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #13 - 05/31/12 at 11:50:28
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Fllg wrote on 05/25/12 at 16:34:50:
Sisyphus wrote on 05/25/12 at 08:22:14:
[quote author=5F55555E190 link=1336993844/10#10 date=1337875405]How can Black save the knight after 7...Be7 8.h4 (with the idea g3, Nfg1, f3)? I would not be happy facing this position with Black OTB.
Shocked


Hm, it seems to me all the fun is with Black after something like 7...Be7 8.h4 0-0 9.g3 Na5 10.Nfg1 c5 when 11.f3 cxd4 12.fxe4 dxe4 13.Bb5 a6 14.Ba4 b5 15.Bb3 Bc5 offers tremendous compensation for the piece. Would you be happy with White here?


After 9...Na5 White plays 10.c3 c5 11.a3 when the 'threat' to capture the knight remains.
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #12 - 05/25/12 at 16:34:50
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Sisyphus wrote on 05/25/12 at 08:22:14:
[quote author=5F55555E190 link=1336993844/10#10 date=1337875405]How can Black save the knight after 7...Be7 8.h4 (with the idea g3, Nfg1, f3)? I would not be happy facing this position with Black OTB.
Shocked


Hm, it seems to me all the fun is with Black after something like 7...Be7 8.h4 0-0 9.g3 Na5 10.Nfg1 c5 when 11.f3 cxd4 12.fxe4 dxe4 13.Bb5 a6 14.Ba4 b5 15.Bb3 Bc5 offers tremendous compensation for the piece. Would you be happy with White here?
  
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Sisyphus
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #11 - 05/25/12 at 08:22:14
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Fllg wrote on 05/24/12 at 16:03:25:
7.Ne2 certainly is a reasonable move. It´s more often played on move 6 though.

But your intention of Nfg1 an f3 doesn´t win the Knight since it can move to g5 and find a secure home on f7. The time it takes to really trap the Knight is probably better spend on development since this would involve committal moves like h4.


7.Ne2 looks better than 6.Ne2 because the recommended reply f7-f6 is no longer possible.
I must admit that the White idea of Nfg1, h2-h4 and f2-f3 looks very committal, but with the centre closed I  am not able to see how White can be punished.

How can Black save the knight after 7...Be7 8.h4 (with the idea g3, Nfg1, f3)? I would not be happy facing this position with Black OTB.
Shocked
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #10 - 05/24/12 at 16:03:25
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7.Ne2 certainly is a reasonable move. It´s more often played on move 6 though.

But your intention of Nfg1 an f3 doesn´t win the Knight since it can move to g5 and find a secure home on f7. The time it takes to really trap the Knight is probably better spend on development since this would involve committal moves like h4.
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #9 - 05/24/12 at 07:26:10
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After further reading Wisnewski's book I wonder if his following idea in chapter 4 is really correct: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e5 Ne4 6.Bd3 f5!?

What does Black play after 7.Ne2!? (intending Nfg1 and f3, trapping the Black knight)? For example 7...Nb4 loses a piece to 8.a3 Nxd3 9.cxd3.
Huh
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #8 - 05/15/12 at 11:41:51
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There have been quite a few threads on the variations stemming from 1.e4 Nc6 (and for that matter 1.d4 Nc6).  As far as 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 is concerned, you need to take 3.exd5;3.e5; and 3.Nc3! all seriously as White has interesting tries in all of those variations.
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #7 - 05/15/12 at 07:11:18
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/15/12 at 06:34:27:
I suppose in that case it would be a decision between the two of avoiding non-2. Nf3 lines whilst having to play 2. d4 d5. But when I played some online blitz for fun with 1...Nc6 and when played 2. d4, but I thought 2...d5 3. e5 Bf5 was good for Black, but I do not know anything about the Nimzowitsch.


3.e5 Bf5 4.c3 is a bit better for White, but the last time I studied this 3...f6 gave Black equal chances. 3.ed5 Qd5 4.Nf3 e5 is also fine for Black, but after 3.Nc3 Black's best move is probably 3...e6, transposing to a sideline of the French.

  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #6 - 05/15/12 at 06:34:27
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I suppose in that case it would be a decision between the two of avoiding non-2. Nf3 lines whilst having to play 2. d4 d5. But when I played some online blitz for fun with 1...Nc6 and when played 2. d4, but I thought 2...d5 3. e5 Bf5 was good for Black, but I do not know anything about the Nimzowitsch.
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #5 - 05/15/12 at 04:36:00
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/15/12 at 04:25:46:
It is not the point of avoiding sidelines because sidelines are weaker, but the sidelines may not be as enjoyable to play against than the main lines. For example, if there were a way to skip all anti-Sicilians and play against the Open Sicilian, I would play that line, because although the Open Sicilian is considered the strongest reply to the Sicilian, playing against anti-Sicilians for most Sicilian players is a burden rather than an enjoyment. So it might be more enjoyable to play against the (albeit stronger) 2. Nf3, similar to how it would be more enjoyable to play against the albeit stronger Open Sicilian than an anti-Sicilian.

And would not a 1...e5 player save time from studying non-2. Nf3 lines with 1...Nc6?


Well you can with 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5, but 3.e4 isn't exactly forced. 

Anyway it seems at the very least impractical to play 1...Nc6 to reach 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 while avoiding alternatives to 2.Nf3, since 2.d4 is a bit more popular and a bit better for White after 2...e5 3.d5 or 2...d5 3.Nc3. I did once play 1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e5 in a game to gain a minute or two on the clock and avoid the Bishop's Opening which was part of my opponent's repertoire at the time.
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #4 - 05/15/12 at 04:25:46
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It is not the point of avoiding sidelines because sidelines are weaker, but the sidelines may not be as enjoyable to play against than the main lines. For example, if there were a way to skip all anti-Sicilians and play against the Open Sicilian, I would play that line, because although the Open Sicilian is considered the strongest reply to the Sicilian, playing against anti-Sicilians for most Sicilian players is a burden rather than an enjoyment. So it might be more enjoyable to play against the (albeit stronger) 2. Nf3, similar to how it would be more enjoyable to play against the albeit stronger Open Sicilian than an anti-Sicilian.

And would not a 1...e5 player save time from studying non-2. Nf3 lines with 1...Nc6?
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #3 - 05/15/12 at 04:20:01
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/14/12 at 23:57:47:
Is 1...Nc6 also used as a form of avoiding 1. e4 sidelines after 1. e4 Nc6 2. Nf3 Nc6?


I'm guessing you mean 2...e5 and I think the idea of using 1...Nc6 to avoid moves other than 2.Nf3 would be a rather odd way to go.  Why try and avoid everything but the strongest move.  I still believe the Nimzovich would be more popular if Black could find a more convincing unique (meaning something besides 2...e5) to 2.Nf3.
  
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Re: Greet vs. Nimzowitsch defence
Reply #2 - 05/14/12 at 23:57:47
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Is 1...Nc6 also used as a form of avoiding 1. e4 sidelines after 1. e4 Nc6 2. Nf3 Nc6?
  
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