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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy (Read 351809 times)
brabo
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #267 - 05/06/13 at 13:35:57
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Stigma wrote on 05/06/13 at 12:24:50:
@Vass:
I can't get any of the chess-results links in your last post to work. Did they remove the tournament, or move it somewhere else?

I was able to access it before but not anymore. Maybe they finally caught him?
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #266 - 05/06/13 at 12:24:50
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@Vass:
I can't get any of the chess-results links in your last post to work. Did they remove the tournament, or move it somewhere else?
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #265 - 05/06/13 at 08:26:39
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The saga continues..
Breaking news!

http://chess-results.com/tnr96030.aspx?lan=1 - the starting rank list
http://old-capital-2013.chessmix.com/ - the official homepage of the organizer
http://chess-results.com/tnr96030.aspx?art=9&lan=1&fed=BUL&flag=30&wi=821&snr=11 - the performance
(Note: The "K"-letter after the result means that the result is by default, i.e. the opponent didn't show for playing the game.)

And the kudos go to IM Sasho Nikolov (2412) who was placed to face "the hero" twice, but never went for it. The personal result of Mr Nikolov is 6.5 out of 7 (nine rounds), so he is the moral winner of the event. And by the way, his last stand to not participating in this circus in the last round punishes "the hero".. As per the tournament regulations "If a player has more than two unplayed games does not participate in the distribution of prizes." Glory for GM Petar Drenchev (2490), because he didn't play his game with "the hero", too..  Wink
The last round is not finished yet..

Edit: http://chess-results.com/PartieSuche.aspx?id=50023&tnr=96030&art=3&lan=1 - the games
If you're interested in some more info, go to Mr (IM) Axel Rombaldoni blog!  Wink
...as well as here (Facebook in Bulgarian language only): https://www.facebook.com/groups/BG.Chess.FeirPlay/
« Last Edit: 05/06/13 at 14:59:41 by Vass »  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #264 - 04/15/13 at 10:59:42
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Some more info...and a decisive game (as per http://www.perpetualcheck.com/show/new.php?lan=cp&data=1218 )..

Google Translator is used:

quote

"Is used Houdini 2.0?

27.08.2012 / FM Zivic, Dragan (2260)

What really happened in Belogradchik? Letter sent us Dragan Zivic ...

Dear Friends,

I just got the game from the MK Stefan Mladenovic from Nis (formerly the first chess steps taught to me, and now he is a coach Miodrag Perunović IM), third from the last round of Balkan Open to amateurs in the Bulgarian Belogradchik village, 40 km south of Vidin, Played Yesterday, 26.8.2012.g. in the last round. Stefan claims that he checked with the Houdini 2.0 and the white pulled from 10th moves to the end (unless one moves) as Houdini 2.0 and to all the first option.

Before the last round IX, both led the standings with 7 points from 8 games, and the first prize was 2,000 leva or more than 1000 euros! One euro is 1.95 leva and 1.96 leva retail buying rate in exchange offices. I recall that it was the III Festival of amateur Balkans, where participation is possible under all 2,250 eloa, and prize money is 7,500 euros was great.

Please check and write your own judgment in this game, and what should be done, because the black lost the game and took the IV award of 350 euros, and he was the first of 1000, and therefore it was not enough and a draw in the last round ( had the best additional criteria before the last round)? Stefan said that his opponent has a little longer hair, that is. that the strands over each ear, and suspected that he was using earphones, and before deciding to move to tank the finals went outside, to the bathroom.

It is possible that Borislav Ivanov, 2194 winner of the III Open Belogradchik, a tearful intelligence and played like a machine, but it is at least strange that a chess player who at 18 is still on 1800 ratings, the 19.g. be on the 1900 play as a power of 2.800 and in so doing, we all know what kind of adrenaline when playing game that brings the reward of a drinker of about 50 euros, and it was here in the first place and the prize of 1,000 euros?

This is not to be reduced as the organizer III Balkan Balkan amateur championship, and excellent playing conditions, a beautiful place Belogradchik, a phenomenal prize money of 7,500 euros and the chief judge of the tournament is my good friend George Zhivkov. Personally, I am sorry that I could not play (my current rating 2.260) but would like all chess players rated below 2250 heartily recommend that next year, playing the Balkan Festival of amateurs!"
http://www.belchess.com/ III Balkan amateur chess festival Belogradchik 2012
...
unquote

And here is the game:



Lips Sealed

P.S. Some Bulgarian chess players yesterday's evidences and statements: (as per http://www.facebook.com/groups/chessbg/ & Google Translator)
"Against Uncle Kiro (GM Kiril Georgiev) played almost entirely as per the first line of Houdini, so Uncle Kiro pushed the figures after the game and wanted to leave the tournament."
"Way to Grisha (GM Grigor Grigorov) that has not played with him and to Kiro that he had but spit in his eyes."

Embarrassed
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #263 - 04/15/13 at 03:08:48
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. .
Vass wrote on 04/14/13 at 20:58:03:
The saga continues...

(use Google translator or similar  Wink )


(For those of you who value your time, here is the translation, from Croation, to English...)

E n g l i s h:


GM B.Lalic "(14/04/2013) The most famous crook today, Borislav Ivanov, looting continues at a rapid tournaments. Lightly today won the Memorial Andon Ćustendilu. Written in the eighth round by then leading Grigorov, he refused to play against a swindler! Probably is best treated as Grigorov, and let the crook win the tournament with 9 forfeit ... "(source: http://www.perpetualcheck.com/index.php?lan=sr)

"Borislav Ivanov won today in Plovdiv, first prize 300 leva which is 150 euros, and beat GM Kiril Georgiev experts in rapid chess, only lost to IM Sasha Nikolova (I beat him with a black nimcovicki in Pula in the Open 16 years ago - amazing how he managed pobijediiti John), GM Grigorov refused to come to the party against John so lost without a fight. seems that the use of computers in the rapid chess match has even greater force than the normal slow chess match, unbelievable!"


-----   -----   -----
It is unfathomable to me how a guy under massive suspicion could avoid definitive detection of his cheating method when the statistical probability that he is cheating repeatedly exceeds 99%.

The T.D. should require that Ivanov's games be played without spectators.
And a cheap video camera should be aimed at him and recording through most or all of the game.

. .
  

GeneM , CastleLong.com , FRC-chess960
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #262 - 04/14/13 at 20:58:03
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The saga continues...

http://www.chess-results.com/tnr95086.aspx?art=4&lan=24&flag=30&wi=821

Time control: 10m+5s per move

Performance: http://www.chess-results.com/tnr95086.aspx?art=9&lan=24&fed=BUL&flag=30&wi=984&s...

GM B.Lalic: "(14.04.2013) Najpoznatiji prevarant današnjice, Borislav Ivanov, nastavlja sa pljačkama na rapid turnirima. Danas je lagano osvojio Memorijal Andonova u Ćustendilu. U osmom kolu do tada vodeći Grigorov, odbio je da igra protiv prevaranta! Verovatno je najbolje postupiti kao Grigorov, a prevarant nek osvoji turnir sa 9 kontumacija..." (source: http://www.perpetualcheck.com/index.php?lan=sr )
"Borislav Ivanov pobijedio danas u Plovdivu, prva nagrada 300 leva sto je 150 eura, pobijedio je i GM Kirila Georgieva strucnjaka u brzom sahu, jedino je izgubio od IM Sashe Nikolova ( njega sam pobijedio sa crnima u nimcovicki u Puli na openu prije 16 godina - nevjerojatno kako je uspio pobijediiti Ivanova ), GM Grigorov je odbio doci na partiju protiv Ivanova pa je izgubio bez borbe. Izgleda da koristenje kompjutera u brzom sahu ima jos vecu snagu nego u normalnom sporom sahu, nevjerojatno!!!" (use Google translator or similar  Wink)

Just a game from the event: (source: http://www.facebook.com/groups/chessbg/ )



Lips Sealed

EDIT: Carlsen is to be the last in this line...maybe soon.. Who knows?
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #261 - 03/28/13 at 13:22:43
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/28/13 at 01:36:36:
  How can a human predict that one variation will magically turn up the win of a piece or pawn promotion or whatever without seeing to the end?  I don't understand.  


If the engine doesn't see any decisive tactics that cannot be avoided, the newer ones, Rybka onwards, give an evaluation based on positional factors. So they suggest a move which improves their position according to the weights the programmer gave to particular features of the position. Being able to match an engine in obscure and imaginative tactics is different from being able to match it in a near level and relatively quiet position.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #260 - 03/28/13 at 09:18:52
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Some more info:

Open Letter from Kenneth W. Regan on cheating at chess
Date: 3 March 2013
http://www.chessprofessionals.org/content/open-letter-kenneth-w-regan-cheating-c...

FIDE-ACP Anti-Cheating Commission proposed as Ivanov causes further suspicion
March 26, 2013
http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/fide-acp-anti-cheating-commission-proposed-as-...

Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #259 - 03/28/13 at 05:23:49
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #258 - 03/28/13 at 01:36:36
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RdC wrote on 03/28/13 at 01:13:49:
It is though a reasonable proposition that if you use computer engines intensively for analysis, that after a while you can predict what they will find.


Ummm...no.  Computers' moves are a result of brute force calculations (number of moves deep with resultant positions fed into an evaluation algorithm).  How can a human predict that one variation will magically turn up the win of a piece or pawn promotion or whatever without seeing to the end?  I don't understand.   
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #257 - 03/28/13 at 01:13:49
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/27/13 at 23:52:04:
.

Eric, the point behind Ivanov's performance is that it's erratic.


There is the alternative premise, that he's actually of GM strength but is using ratings manipulation so as to preserve eligibility for class prizes. It doesn't explain how he's managed to tune his way of thinking to match computer engines. It is though a reasonable proposition that if you use computer engines intensively for analysis, that after a while you can predict what they will find.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #256 - 03/27/13 at 23:52:04
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Yes, Occam's razor definitely applies here. But I don't quite see how his opponents and the arbiters can't figure out how he's transmitting and receiving the moves. He's a very clever cheat.

Eric, the point behind Ivanov's performance is that it's erratic. The move analysis takes time, but apparently he has used the engine in some games but not others. That will make him much more difficult to catch in the future.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #255 - 03/27/13 at 20:37:38
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A co-conspirator would be possible, of course, but it would probably be much harder to arrange in individual tournaments. In the French cheating, it was perfectly natural for the team captain to spend most of his time around his team's boards. In Ivanov's tournaments, on the other hand, the co-conspirator would have to spend a suspicious amount of time close to Ivanov's board. Considering that "everyone" suspects Ivanov is cheating, I find it hard to believe that a co-conspirator could manage to spend such a large amount of time close to Ivanov without any suspicion being raised.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #254 - 03/27/13 at 20:17:23
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I don't know the conditions under which the tournaments Ivanov has played in were held, but wouldn't it be fairly simple to cheat with a co-conspirator along the lines of the French cheating that took place?  A spectator moves about the room, scratches his head, cocks his head to one side or the other, crosses his right arm over his left arm, puts his hand in one pocket instead of the other, etc., all to convey a square to move to.  Then Ivanov doesn't have any device on his person that can be found--it's on a spectator in the playing hall.

Also, most of the comments I've heard focus on his performance itself, which is immaterial.  The point, as I've tried to make before, is that the moves he plays are not his own, i.e. they are clearly plagiarized when he plays 50 moves in a row of a computer's first recommendation, etc.   I wish people would focus on that, regardless of his performance.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #253 - 03/27/13 at 02:03:38
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Sutovsky isn't asking for new laws, but for seeking out new methods of detection that FIDE and the PCA can agree upon. Right now, there's a lynch mob mentality, as seen by Chessbase calling Lilov's attack ads "objective". 

Whether Ivanov cheated or not (and yes, I believe he did cheat), there needs to be a protocol in place that FIDE and the players can understand as fair. That's what Sutovsky is asking for, not a change in rules, but a method of applying the rules in the new era of micro-computers.
  
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